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Re:Corn Wars by rayiner on Tuesday August 18, 2015 @05:39PM (#10082398)
> These are extremely competitive industries, doing cutting edge science, with the goal of feeding and/or healing humans. How downright evil of them.

There's this idea that certain classes of activity are "too important" for profit-motive to be allowed. Education, healthcare, science, and agriculture usually fall in the line of fire. These people cheer on the companies that make their money in advertising or solving first world problems and demonize those that work on the capital-intensive problems in healthcare, science, or agriculture. Then they loudly complain about how the best of the best are going into the wrong lines of work. It's bonkers.

Moral tale: my brother was at the top of his class at an Ivy-league school and got his degree in physics. He did lab research on nanotechnology since high school. He seriously considered getting his PhD in physics. I counseled him to go to Wall Street instead, which he did. Now he makes a bunch of money and couldn't be happier.

What's my point? Getting a PhD in a hard science should be a license to print money like going into advertising or finance. Until that's true, you're not going to get the allocation of social resources you want. And government research isn't a solution to that. You'll never make a bunch of money working for the government. And if e.g. the government lets people keep the patents on research that's initially publicly-funded, so they can make a bunch of money on the endeavor, then the aforementioned people will demonize that as evil.

Re:Corn Wars by tomp on Tuesday August 18, 2015 @05:51PM (#10082459)
It's not that they are "too important" for profit, it's that the supply and demand laws are such that a free market is very hard to establish.

Taking healthcare for example, the incentives of the buyers (patients) and sellers (doctors) are inherently conflicting, as the former seek health, while the latter benefit when the former are sick. Furthermore, the patients very often urgently need help and don't have the time (nor the knowledge) to "shop around".

Or education. The "value" of a college is the increase in lifetime income vs. a high-school education, but given the slow feedback cycle (30 years or so of working) the market equilibrium is trending towards the price of college being the discounted value of all discretionary income of the graduates. This is aided by the US government that guarantees the loans and prevents them being discharged in bankruptcy.

A similar field is also infrastructure.

None of these fields must inherently be constrained by the government, but they need to be regulated in such a way that a free competition is encouraged.

Re:Corn Wars by rayiner on Tuesday August 18, 2015 @06:19PM (#10082594)
> Taking healthcare for example, the incentives of the buyers (patients) and sellers (doctors) are inherently conflicting, as the former seek health, while the latter benefit when the former are sick.

That's trivially true of almost every market. People want food but restaurants benefit when the former are hungry!

Re:Corn Wars by tomp on Tuesday August 18, 2015 @06:38PM (#10082678)
That's true. Which is why restaurants in tourist spots should be less trusted. But most other restaurants have enough returning customers, and the customers have enough knowledge about the product they're buying, that the feedback loop (good product -> more profit) is much more direct.
Re:Corn Wars by gress on Tuesday August 18, 2015 @09:54PM (#10083308)
That ignores the issue - being hungry is a basic need and it's ok that we keep getting hungry and meeting that need through restaurants.

People getting sick is not a basic need unless you are a healthcare company. That's why the incentives are conflicting.

Re:Corn Wars by rayiner on Tuesday August 18, 2015 @11:11PM (#10083509)
Getting hungry happens naturally, so does getting sick. Restaurants and healthcare companies are needed to address each need. The incentives are the same.
Re:Corn Wars by gress on Wednesday August 19, 2015 @12:33AM (#10083698)
Absolutely false.

Getting hungry again happens naturally regardless of the choice of food offered by a restaurant.

Whether you remain sick, are cured, or get sick again depends significantly on the choice of treatment offered. Healthcare companies have an incentive to choose treatments that don't cure you.

Re:Corn Wars by xacaxulu on Tuesday August 18, 2015 @08:53PM (#10083123)
I'm not afraid of a profit motive, I'm afraid of moral hazard à la subprime mortgage backed securities.
Re:Corn Wars by puppetmaster3 on Tuesday August 18, 2015 @11:38PM (#10083561)
I call b.s on: "and couldn't be happier."

Individual humans may have other things that motivate.