smidgeoncoup

Well right now the trailing 12 month PE average for S&P is 20. So still above historical norm after this 20% drop. I wouldn't say things are oversold, rather everything was way overvalued.

And people are overlooking the fact this is just the herald wave, and probability of a catastrophic 2nd wave this fall/winter is pretty damn high. This isn't going away. This more than likely will move through the population a few times over the next few years until the vulnerable are "sifted through" so to speak. I want to believe in our scientific and technical capabilities but nobody should hold their breath for an effective vaccine in the next year or two. This has the potential to fundamentally and structurally change more than just the economy.

But I feel you..99x out of 100 you're spot on. Unfortunately, it's looking like the potential reality we might be facing is something most can't or don't want to comprehend. It at least deserves real consideration and thought.. we'll get through it and move on, but I don't think people grasp or want to believe what might be to come.

And 5 kids, in metro California

No - at the time I used forums (think creditboards or something like that and others) which have very helpful "armchair experts" that give excellent advice. Lots of form letters/response letters can be found and modified to suit your specifics. Many good strategies can be found and adapted down to the specific collection agency, etc. One of those things all the info is easily 'googled' and just gotta put in the hours reading and understanding how it all works, then use it to your advantage.

It's basically trying to get them to trip up and make a mistake - and it blew my mind how often and unabashedly these collection agencies would! Hell even BofA and Chase violated before they sold the debt off and I got an immediate removal from my report and the debt wiped away / no more collections (I was happy just to make things 'disappear' in these instances..didn't put money in my pocket but at the time is was a huge win, as one can imagine).

any consumer rights attorney will take debt collector abuse cases on contingency - 40% cut. Abuse is so rampant (at least it was after the last financial crisis) it literally is like playing whack-a-mole for $1k/pop for every violation. A collector that repeatedly called my place of employment after being told I couldn't accept calls there, and threatened jail time, was forced to pay me $10k to me for their violations (and 8k to my attorney) on my counterclaim in addition to having their suit against me thrown out -- this was a law office that purchased debts and blanket sued and strongarmed/scared people into paying via violations of the FDCPA.. it's worth it for them because 90% of people give in and don't know their rights. It's even more worth it for those individuals that do understand the law and their rights.

Just document all calls, save all letters, and get a good grasp of the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act and any state-level equivalent (Rosenthal in CA) -- in CA you get to shoot the violators with a double barrel for federal AND state violations.

Having the major credit card companies increase my APR to 30% in 2009 having never missed a payment on anything in my life, while being backstopped via TARP and having literal 0% Fed/interbank lending rates blew my top off and I decided giving them the finger was my individual right of protest and damn the consequences. Little did I know I was entering an exciting world of learning how to beat the bottom feeders at their own game. Never paid a dime, made about $20k suing for violations, and my credit score was above 700 within 4 years and after everything fell off (7 years) it's like it never happened. But I'll never forget it - was pretty damn exciting to be honest.