sargstuff

Way more than typical HN reply.

Business view of lims/dal:

DAL (diagnostic assembly line system - compliance) passes things up to LIMS (information management system - accountability/tracking through process life cycle) & ERP (like SAP). Industry/company policies / regulations set what is considered a deterministic resolution for a LIMS/ERP process item aka successful process life cycle completion and/or what needs to be done for a non-deterministic / incomplete life cycle process. Information from or not received from one or more DAL's or other sources may/may not contribue to a non-deterministic outcome/resolution.

Contrived example: "Oh man, music data strucures are a rabbit hole." : https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=50200065

Project didn't have a deterministic way to figure out if individual songs being added already esisited in 'database'. Song(s) packaged differently so 'same' audio song need multiple methods to figure out if already in database. Not all computation methods / automated methods for finding songs were 'available'. aka no code to determinsticily go through all various ways to find duplicates.

Vs program acoustid provides a unique identifying 'fingerprint' (DAL level item) passed to LIMS -> beets/musicbrains. LIMS then uses unique identifying 'fingerprint' as a way to associate other addition DAL level data (artist, record lable, what else released with). Undiscussed, what if 2 recored lables released same song? LIMS might contain information on which format to keep/convert to if two song fingerprints are the same). Missing information on to ignore file format or convert to a specific file format would lead to a non-deterministic result of only difference between 'identical' song fingerprints was song file format. Different formats (file & recording) do generate different quality recordings. LIMS level usually is level sort/resolve conflicting data from DAL's. Note: 'how to deterministially resolve issue(s)' may be a feature request by a user after LIMS (SAP) has been set up.

Ah, deterministic abstraction layer vs. workflow framework vs. ide.

So much for always use lambda expressions in macros and never have to worry about mutex issues.

> What's missing for a true deterministic ....

agreed upon common reference monoid / starting point

> What is stopping us from such language, visualization or construction method?

ADA Spark, Gleam_otp/Elixir/Erlang_otp aren't main stream. All programing languages don't interact natively with BEAM.

Domain/subject area using DAL in/for/with is missing.

OBS studio[0] might be more easy for producing live video streaming/production.

Dynebolic[1] is an OS distribution geared for multimedia production.

vs. DAL's for banking / stock market transactions.

vs. DAL's used in PX4 [2] & ways to add to / expand a DAL [3]

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[0] : https://obsproject.com/

[1] : https://dyne.org/dynebolic/

[2] : https://docs.px4.io/main/en/concept/architecture

[3] : hof : A tool that unifies data models, schemas, code generation, and a task engine., https://github.com/hofstadter-io/hof

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Beamup with Erlang and Elixir : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIysBF-uWf4&t=203s

The wickedly Awesome Batch and Stream Processing Language You Should Have in Your Toolbox. : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4c6tY0dLni4

Gleam_OTP : https://gleam-otp.hexdocs.pm/0.5.0/index.html

** simple response:

  Absolute/unchanging clarity of purpose/intent/interaction between various dynamic levels/groups in an ever changing world. (P=NP)

  Unified audience and/or obsolescence? airplane demo[0].
  Obsolescence lot easier to acheive than 100% unified audience. No effort required for obsolescence.

** esoteric response:

  By definition, system(s) approach or systematic approach?  Both provide flexibility ( framework of abstractions ).  Flexibility and absolute determanism are opposing concepts. (NP != P)

 Programming language(s) & related software environments[1] could be seen as a lot of attempts at reconciling flexibility and absolute determanism. (independent of ever changing intrinsics used over years X86/amd, theory CISC/risc/arm/mips and various programming levels[2]) 

  related concepts: NP != P; C language spec[1] (vs. lisp machine vs. lisp running on conventional von von-neuman hardware )

** static/dynamic response:

  Theory/what  - Unused system(s) haven't been introduced to implimentation variations.  

  Practice/how - Used Systematic approach(es) will wind up with intrinsic implimentation variations to resolve mismatches between theory/practice.

  Each will break/degrade when appropriately used.

** snarky:

   Keep it simple, split the difference and use vm/webassembly for testing/debugging. Not very practical, but skip the implimentation & theory can lead to absolute "determinism".  Just move on & don't restart after void/segfalt clarity happens.

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[0] : https://meyerweb.com/other/humor/osair.html

[1] : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_programming_languages

[2] : https://medium.com/@hannah.scherz.23/layers-of-abstraction-i...

[3] : https://www.geeksforgeeks.org/c/c-programming-language-stand...

Bit technical, generate an audio verson of unique hash tag id. compare audio hash tags to find duplicates.

"turnkey" setup : musicbrainz picard[0]

incorporate into own project : acoustid[1], dejavu[2]

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[0] : https://picard.musicbrainz.org/

[1] : https://acoustid.org/

[2] : https://github.com/worldveil/dejavu

Slower/more expensive, but perhaps an IRL human theme park 'lunar lander'[0] roadster ride might generate better training set data/project funds.(saftey cables not optional)

It'd be the ONLY way 99.99999% of world would have a shot at driving a roadster.

[0] : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunar_Lander_(video_game_genre...

Typically, when project both meets a party's need(s); party is willing to use it in production, as-is; and legal contract/framwork to handle all the incidentals of using the open source project.

Could use vonori / conformal map[0] in order to support the decomposition of a complex problem into individual parts/piet blocks. aka go from base 2 gotos to base N gotos.

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[0] : Conformal Mapping by Computationally Efficient Methods : https://cdn.aaai.org/ojs/7676/7676-13-11206-1-2-20201228.pdf

"considered harmful" [gotos/globals/etc] : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Considered_harmful

"A case against the GO TO statement" : https://www.cs.utexas.edu/~EWD/transcriptions/EWD02xx/EWD215...

Can provide useful "highlights" for dealing with different language versions / language compatibility/inter-operability issues. aka 1980's language vs. 2020 take.

Treesitter[0] style/approach to deal with anonymous handle(s)/tag(s) of fix point calculus. (anonymous fix point application/manipulation via auto suggestion mouse overs)

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[0] : https://tree-sitter.github.io/tree-sitter/

Umm.....

Hypertools[0] used to display a 'standard program' mapped to '4d' esolang piet might be interesting. A window of 'text breakout of piet segment' relevant to 'standard programming line' would be sorta like mapping set of assembler to corresponding source code line.

piet whylines : https://www.cs.cmu.edu/~NatProg/whyline.html

[0] : hypertools : https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31816024

Like atlas code?[0]

[0] : https://github.com/gearscrafter/atlas_code

λ-2D: An Exploration of Drawing as Programming Language, Featuring Ideas from Lambda Calculus [0]

One can use intensional calculus concepts to model non-lambda languages[3]. A live 'CoC'[6] / rocq[7] layer to hightlight/note 'correctness' issues (auotmated suggestion of proof of correctness/unresolved ANTLER freevars take on ast editors 'valid' language statement(s)/language block(s))

ast editor with gui nodes (panograph[1]) / code block with "user shape" construction using 3DILG[2]?

3d bar codes could be taken as a 'multi-statement' token.

Piet[4][5] programming language might be more useful than 3d barcode as langauge token though (condensed spreadsheet).

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[0] : https://www.media.mit.edu/projects/2d-an-exploration-of-draw...

[1] : https://github.com/jeprinz/pantograph/blob/main/README.md

[2] : https://1zb.github.io/3DILG/

[3] : [video] Beyond Lambda-Calculus: Intensional Computation calculus : https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49067361

[4] : piet examples : https://www.dangermouse.net/esoteric/piet/samples.html

[5] : esolang Piet : https://esolangs.org/wiki/Piet

[6] : calculus of constructions : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calculus_of_constructions

[7] : rocq : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rocq

A use case for unicode bidirectional algorithm[1] at language implimentation level.

(vs. more traditioinal abstraction/logic level planes & normal to plane concepts: apl - hide it all in the language; spreadsheet - hide nothing/any information at any abstraction level is displayable[2][3][4][5]6])

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[1] Unicode bidirectinal algorithm : https://www.unicode.org/reports/tr9/

[2] spreadsheet : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spreadsheet

[3] sc-im - an ncuses spreadsheet program for the terminal: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24318367

[4] Excel as a Turing-complete functional programming environment : https://eusprig.org/wp-content/uploads/2309.00115.pdf

[5] lambda the ultimate excell worksheet function : https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/research/blog/lambda-the-ult...

[6] escher circuits : https://esoteric.codes/blog/escher-circuits-using-vision-to-...

Nice retro-demo/motivation for "what's the point of protocols/abstraction layers"[0].

Use case argument for an add-on programmable logic array / micro controller board as security interface / non-standard to standard protocol translation.

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[0] : https://www.terryewell.com/m116/Docs/historyMIDI.pdf

Wonder if Knuth was trying to determine how much tech one could generate out of a block device and still have a consistant normal form. (vs. yak shaving) --- looks like an infinate amount, just as long as (NP != P) & (shrodinger's cat is alive[0]). aka. shrodinger's cat not alive means no more suppositions. np is now p, so !NP = P can happen. lisp users call that closure. The complete inverse of physics, maximum font size for given context of !

C type casting addresses the issue so much easier, either (&*(NP) = seg fault ? B) or (B = &*(NP) ? seg fault).

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[0] : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schr%C3%B6dinger%27s_cat

Guess streams was a mixed analog / digital world thing[0]. Is 'curl' the higher order wave crest of LC_NETWORK (aka 'sane' http protocol reference to type bundled 0,1,2 file descriptors)

One can have curl as a bash loadable routine without the need to recompile bash. Headless or not, much more sane[4] than ctypes.sh[1] as curl binary epilog/prolog handle the non-http protocol items within the context of curl module/program. More relevant logic level related to topic beyond http protocol only curl : socat[2] and gnu netcat[3].

Ah, HN doesn't provide a way to conjure up * data tapes (comments not withstanding). Ebnf being battle tested for years & grepping the ANTLER[7] by the horns:

awk interpeting http stream via http protocol[5] via ebnf of http protocol likely to better handle the different protocal layers more gracefully than bash script. Would need to make sure awk is in bit mode and not character/byte mode to avoid line discipline issues / 'stty sane'[4]. Note:

Perl/python provide better layers of abstraction than shell coding for the different levels of protocols used in/with http protocol/ ebnf,Kleene* coding.[6] In shell, having a different command programm for every ebnf set/protocol level vs. awk, different ebnf for each Kleene* protocol level)

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[0] : Your trerminal is not a terminal: An Introduction to Streams : https://www.lucasfcosta.com/blog/streams-introduction

[1] : ctypes.sh : https://github.com/taviso/ctypes.sh

[2] : socat : https://github.com/3ndG4me/socat/releases

[3] : gnu netcat: https://netcat.sourceforge.net/

[4] : stty sane : https://real-world-systems.com/docs/stty.1.html

      https://jaredgorski.org/notes/unix-tty/

[5] : https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc9110.pdf

[6] : https://grokipedia.com/page/Kleene_star

[7] : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ANTLR

Guess the 'how do I post to lobsters?' secret is out[0]. aka snarf the mail distribution list. send out to mail distribution list. If worthy enough article, sent email gets posted/archived on site.

[0] : "But yak shaving is fun" : https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48555838

Hacker news needs a 'non-standard programming language subject tag'. Perhaps ":-J" as first line in comment?

Kiisu[0], credit card sized footprint computer with modular add-ons.

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[0] : https://github.com/kiisu-io/

Perhaps doing the g-code text as barcoding / q-code sequences might permit more code to be included in book?