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Lol get off your high horse. We can agree to disagree.

> You're just saying "nuh huh. What I believe in true and applies to everyone whether they like it or not".

Kind of ironic considering that's what the trans activists are insisting women must submit to, regarding all the men invading their spaces.

I understood their point and I fundamentally disagree with it.

Look, if a man wants to wear dresses or take estrogen or call himself a woman, that's fine, he can do what he likes. But whatever he does, he's not and will never be a woman, because he is male. Women are female, not some idea in a man's head.

Let's not ignore millions of years of evolutionary history just to spare the feelings of a few cross-dressers.

I accept that they exist, but I don't accept any of their claims about gender. It requires a set of outlandish beliefs that I don't personally hold. I don't mind that they hold these beliefs, but I think they're incorrect and incoherent.

This is the same stance that I have on various religions. If this is bigoted, so be it.

I disagree. If a man attempts to masquerade as a woman, and someone is led to believe that he is a woman, that doesn't make him a woman. It just means his pretence managed to fool someone into believing this. Behind this facade, he is still a man.

Also I'm not convinced that a man being called "ma'am" or "miss" necessarily means that the speaker thinks he's a woman, especially these days. They might be saying it because that's how you're expected to politely address men in dresses these days. Or perhaps, they are being quietly sarcastic about the whole thing.

In summary, I don't accept this Butlerian redefinition of woman, as it's incoherent with reality and relies on guessing what's going on in people's minds. The existing definition of adult human female is fine and there's no need to change it.

> The complete lack of self-awareness here is comical.

How? A man doesn't become a woman by wearing dresses and skirts and using a purse, and he doesn't become female by messing around with his hormone levels.

He's still a man, still male, whatever his desires to the contrary. Anything else is simply a fiction that the rest of us are being told to participate in.

Okay, but do you think these transwomen who I quoted are actually women?

> Men wear pants and never wear dresses and women wear dresses and skirts and use a purse.

You don't actually believe this is what defines men and women do you? If so, wow. That is incredibly, regressively sexist.

> And again, if a trans person has severely changed their sex hormones, the concept of "sex never changes" is shaky anyway.

A male taking medication to increase his estrogen and reduce his testosterone level, for example, is just a male taking medication. He hasn't converted himself to female. There is no change of sex, this is nonsense.

> So stop trying to tell trans women they're really men. Such a statement completely misses all the subtle realities of such a statement, serves no productive purpose, and is rude as hell.

Of course they're men: transwomen are by definition men who want to be women. The purpose of keeping this in mind is when they try to demand access to female-only spaces, instead of pretending they are women, we can tell them NO.

I note that you have no comment to make on the quotes themselves, just complaints of transphobia.

Do you agree with what was said in these quotations, and do you think that these three famous transwomen who said these things are actually women - or just pornsick, sexist men?

In trans circles, these guys are celebrated.

We should look at what transwomen say about their experiences of being women and see if it sounds like something a real woman would say. Here's some from transwoman authors:

"Pornography is what it feels like when you think you have an object, but really the object has you. It is therefore a quintessential expression of femaleness." -- Andrea Long Chu

"Getting fucked makes you female because fucked is what a female is." -- Andrea Long Chu

"There is something about being treated like shit by men that feels like affirmation itself, like a cry of delight from the deepest cavern of my breast ... to be a victim of honest, undisguised sexism possesses an exhilarating vitality." -- Grace Lavery

"While I never really believed the cliché about women being good for one thing, I found that that sentiment kept creeping into my fantasies. I would imagine myself being sold into sex slavery and having strange men take advantage of me. It's called forced feminization, and it's not really about sex. It is about turning the humiliation you feel into pleasure, transforming the loss of male privilege into the best fuck ever." -- Julia Serano

To me they just sound like horny men parading their misogyny.

So, you've used a recently resurrected account to engage on this specific issue, mostly by calling people disingenuous, transphobic bigots, in a series of long and rambling comments.

Do you believe that this approach to expressing disagreement has been effective?

> are you only here to espouse anti-trans views?

Your own account, which has public activity going back for less than a month, is almost entirely dedicated to soapboxing on trans issues.

Rather a case of the pot calling the kettle black, don't you think?

Sorry but that's not a very convincing argument. Seems to me that you are painting Hayton as transphobic simply for having opinions on trans issues that you don't agree with, but that are more aligned with those of feminists.

I think Hayton's article provides a view that carefully and thoughtfully balances the needs of both women and transwomen. It's a refreshing change from the type of activism that demands all sex-segregated spaces be torn down and that sex-based rights no longer matter.

I found Hayton's article a fascinating insight into someone who has gone through the whole process of transitioning, yet has much to critique about the modern activism on this topic, from the perspective of having lived experience and deep understanding.

Seems odd to write this off as "transphobic" given that Hayton is a transwoman. I think you just have a differing opinion, that's all.

> The primary abusers of women and children are men

This is one reason why many feminists, and others, argue against transwomen sharing female-only spaces. From their point of view, a transwoman is a type of man, due to being male, and being trans isn't a sufficient mitigation.

From a criminality perspective, there are data to support this, which indicate that transwomen as a group have similar patterns of offending to other males. And, worryingly, a higher proportion of sexual offences.

On that latter point, this article by transwoman Debbie Hayton offers some insight as to why this may be: https://www.crimeandjustice.org.uk/resources/prison-service-...

Are you referring to incidents like this: https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/4002789/morrisons-sex-...?

If so, these are rare, and aren't the main reason why most people want to keep certain spaces as sex-segregated.