AroundTheBlock_

It doesn't. His example is nonsensical.

The best use cases for smart contracts are gambling apps (i.e., financial markets, exchanges), escrow services (collateral-based trustless loans), and perhaps some identity services

Actually, 51% of miners can't cause a hard fork (which TheDAO was).

I mean the notion of "exactly" is nonsensical in so many ways, especially when it comes to thinly traded exchanges. I can sell $1 to my friend for $1.10 break the US dollar. Lol.

MakerDAO just launched their token based product, and it's an insanely powerful app, and I use it regularly.

Ok sure, connect to another node. But a light client is its own node.

No true light client exists. SPV is different. See here a Core dev talking about it.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/53bfj6/will_there_...

Even your own links says "A Bitcoin implementation that does not verify everything, but instead relies on either connecting to a trusted node"

It is very complex, but also very, very early. No one is pretending that any of this is production ready or user friendly. These are just glimpses into what is being worked on for over the next 5-10 years

No, they're not using the Light Client yet for that very reason, but easily could in the future. But in any case, no crypto wallets are light clients. All Bitcoin wallets, for example, use servers because it's impossible to do Bitcoin light clients (at least, they haven't found a solution yet).

This app is more about having WeChat with crypto payments and with app interactions. Light client could come later though.

Yep, TheDAO fork represents one of the best things about the community, which is a)ability to make rapid, high pressure decisions, yet still offer fair choice to everyone.

People forget that the ETC exists and is viable for anyone who wants it.

Everyone needs to stop talking about developer losses and whatnot. They gave us a choice, there is 100% consensus on the ETH chain, and there is 100% consensus on the ETC chain. If you want to blame anyone, blame the users. But the dev team has been incredibly top notch and professional all around.

Yep we seriously believe it. It's no more crazy than using crypto for actual money.

Except ETC is hard forking in a few months to change their coin issuance for no reason other than to make their own pockets richer.

Because it's not immediately clear, this is a project developed by Coinbase, but under its own brand. The demo, which is available on the Apple Store and Google Play store uses TestNet Ether for now.

>The analogy to the legal system is that mob rule supersedes (digital) contract law and property rights.

That's basically true. I don't dispute that. That's basically how Bitcoin works as well. There's currently a coup attempt going on to overthrow Bitcoin Core. If the mob grows big enough they will succeed.

>Eating the loss doesn't stop you from developing better software. Heck, I'd say that it's a pretty good way to prevent things in the future by giving people a real incentive to prevent bugs in the first place. If it's socially acceptable to roll back the clock because somebody wrote a dumb smart contract then it's a sign that writing dumb smart contracts is socially acceptable.

Eat the loss or not eating the loss doesnt affect development. The development track is the same either way. One saves a sad sack of idiots from losing money and the other doesn't. It's not the development team's job to teach people basic life skills about risk. Users had a choice to be on the chain where they lost money or the one that they didn't. Shocker, they chose to recover their money. Has nothing to do with developing better software or not.

>That's a false dichotomy. In the analogy Musk doesn't go to jail unless he willfully released something that he knew could kill people or otherwise programmed the cars to drive on the sidewalk. In ETH's case they could have absorbed the loss, hardened the systems, and moved on. Honestly it would have added a lot more credibility to the whole endeavor by showing that they were willing to put their (ETH) money where their mouths are.

No one willfully released TheDAO code to suck. It just sucked by accident. Absorbing the loss would NOT have hardened the system. Everything would be exactly the same. It wouldn't have made Eth any more or less credible if we absorbed the loss. And if you are put off, that's fine. If you want to join a blockchain with perfect credibility, good luck. Bitcoin has forked ~3 times, and Ethereum Classic has forked 2 or 3 times now as well.

Maybe blockchain technology is too nascent, or it just isn't for you. But the takeaway here is that _we are all still striving and working hard to make this technology be meaningful for the world, so stop shitting on it just to get your rocks off_. Not you personally, but others clearly do.

My attitude is neutral. I'm not here to endear anyone. I have zero desire to influence you nor anyone else to purchase and/or use Ethereum. My only purpose is to clear up misconceptions and defend the reasoning behind the hard fork. And I am very supportive of those users who want to use Ethereum Classic. However, don't shit on the users who want to use the main chain.

"What's to prevent a similar situation in the future and why should anyone believe that to hold?"

Ask yourself if this was a centralized hard fork ordered by up high, or as users we chose to opt in to this change. Clearly we opted in, because Ethereum Classic exists for those who so wish. Therefore, the Ethereum Foundation did not "force" me to do anything that I didn't agree to.

Yes in my example Musk might have gotten sued (although really? is he at risk of that right now? I doubt it.), but a mistake early on in development should not hinder the advancement of the technology.

If you are going to say smart contracts are useful, but we should abandon the Ethereum blockchain, then BY ALL MEANS please go to Ethereum Classic. You'll be welcome there with open arms. But the main Ethereum community clearly prioritizes pragmatism, as do the majority of the world. We're not idealists. We're actually trying to put out a meaningful technology to help people. So you can throw Musk in jail or let him get back to work on saving lives.

Great, dont use it. Clearly, others don't share your perspective. That's the beauty of decentralized systems. No one is forcing you to use Ethereum or Bitcoin or anything. But your opinion on its usefulness as an outsider is much less meaningful.

I'll get the dumb stuff out of the way.

No, the hard fork for TheDAO did not sacrifice our principles.

No it wasn't a centralized bailout.

Yes, there were SOME shady things that went down, but all very minor. It was a very confusing time for all.

Yes, the website says "unstoppable uncensorable contracts" and we stopped one. Congratulations. Let me direct you to Ethereum Classic. You can't complain about a hard fork when you have a community that upholds the original version. Go complain there. The rest of us are moving forward and helping develop a technology that will ultimately be fully decentralized and uncensorable. In the meantime, our community respects our centralized development team that is super awesome and competent and are committed to changing the world.

Best analogy I can come up with is Elon Musk trying to develop automated driving cars, and a few people tragically get killed along the way due to it. That doesnt mean automated driving cars are bad, or that development of the technology should cease.

Here's a great list of upcoming projects

https://www.reddit.com/r/ethereum/comments/5slji5/its_all_sl...

People aren't going to magically sell Eth and buy Bitcoin just because you're spamming the Hacker News thread, Chris.

You're wasting your time. He's Bitcoin's biggest troll.

Chris DeRose, you have no power here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBGWtVOKTkM

TheDAO is an example of a mistake on the path towards building something better/safer. You don't think airbags have ever killed people? Faulty seatbelts? Did Tesla abandon auto-pilot because of a few accidents? Do I need to go on and on? This is a nascent technology, of course there are going to be missteps along the way, and to hold it against Ethereum forever is an incredibly cynical point of view for supposed technologists.

Why is it so hard to understand that there will be no magic machine that will fly into space and put satellites that will relay our messages to one another...oh wait...

That is incorrect. The Mist browser forces you to select a choice upon startup. There was no default. Mist is the most popular client.