Aljik
For a conversation you being pretty insulting. But, no, contrary to your assumption its actual curiosity.
If you are worried about this argument continuing if you refer me to such works, I promise not discuss them if you post them.
Not, I assumed you had different understanding. Maybe you do have a more accurate understanding of the situation but that isn't clear yet.
And as for giving a simple explanation? Why is that a bad thing? I want to communicate clearly so you can understand me.
>That's why I can't stand LWers.
I'm not a LWer. I don't have an account there. I've never interacted with the community at all. I've just read some of the posts.
>Here's an excerpt on him talking about the basilisk.
Which just supports my understanding.
As he says:
>Basically, the same obvious precautions you'd use if Lovecraft's Necronomicon was online and could be found using simple Google keywords - you wouldn't post anything which would cause anyone to enter those Google keywords, unless they'd been warned about the potential consequences.
Which is analogy akin to my coding one.
>But since you are so DESPERATE to defend Elizer
I think Elizier is a pretty messed up person. He clearly has mental issues. At the same time, I am very thankful to him/LW/HPMOR for personal reasons. Which is why I will step up to defend him when I think he/LW is being, I guess slandered?
> (when I have not once said that I dislike him - something else that you would have noticed if you bothered to LISTEN)
I never accused you of disliking him.
Honestly though, for as much as you've condemned my behavior in this discussion, I'm not the one repeatedly insulting people.
It was through this that I learned how to program. While I did spend some time with python and other languages, programming in a video game was far, far more fun, and thus I spent hours doing it.
Due to it, today I have a great job, and in my spare time, I make my own games.
Sorry what? You have to say that isn't outstanding, unless some one gets the impression he is?
Maybe this is crazy idea, but if Elizier wasn't outstanding... wouldn't that be something people would figure out for themselves? On the otherhand if people are reading his works, and walking away with the impression that he is outstanding, couldn't it simply be that it is? And even so, who are you to say that is wrong?
On the other hand, if there really are authors who write about similar things,but better than Yudkowsky I would be interested in reading (I haven't found any).
So, since you claim to know of such things, could you pick something Yudkowsky has written about and name me another who does it better?
That is ridiculous. It isn't such a thing and no one believes it to be such a thing. That isn't why it was banned.
To make an analogy, say I believed I created some code, that if ran, would kill the person who was using the computer it ran on. Then I posted that code online.
In some-sense, that would be really dumb of me. Even if you don't believe that my code actually works, you can still be consistent when criticizing me for sharing it.
The second issue that maybe in the future, such a thing will be possible. Maybe computers and humans will be so integrated that you can kill people with malicious software.
Those are the reasons the Basilisk was banned. Do I think banning them was the appropriate action? No. It was Yudkowsky power-tripping cause hes arrogant. Is it as you or others make it out to be? No.
Like if people were donating all their money to A.I because of the Basilisk, or killing themselves while gambling because they've taken many worlds too far, or something I could see why you would be so urgent to warn people away from Yudkowsky. What is you are so concerned with?
It is relevant. Look what you wrote:
>Yudkowsky likes to dream up (evil robots destroying everything and torturing and extorting and creating myriads of simulations of simulations of you being tortured in the worst ways possible in various hypothetical, counterfactual scenarios to acausally motivate you to serve these evil overlords etc.)
Unless I am mistaken, this is a clear reference to Roko's basilisk. EXCEPT Yudkowsky didn't dream it up. Roko did.
Can you elaborate on your issues w/ the Basilisk? As far as I am concerned its just a thought experiment. If Yudkowsky had actually tried to get people to give him money or something via it you would have a good complaint... but he didn't.
What prescriptions does singulartism give on how to live?
>None of those are required of a religion: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion
If you want to call the singularity culture a cult or religion, I'm not going to stop you. You can define things however you want. However, from what I see it has little in common with other things I would call cults, and other things I would call religions.
Now if you are honestly consistent, I will applaud you. So I am curious to ask. What are some other cults, aside from the ones I would agree to be cults (Scientology and such). What are some other religions aside from the ones I would agree to be religions (Islam, Christianity, Buddhism and such...).
I'm just basically curious what else you call a cult/religion aside from singularity + the stereotypical stuff.
Yudkowsky isn't some devious mastermind trying to brainwash people into thinking wrong so he can. So he can what? Even if he was a devious mastermind who created a polemic work so as to get people to think wrong... what would his goal be?
And to be honest, I wouldn't even call the singularity culture a religion. It has no supernatural beings (no gods as you, but no angels or whatever as well). No magical beliefs. By that I mean things like the idea that prayer can heal. No ways to worship. No prescriptions on how to live your life. Literally the only thing is singularity = rapture.
Like honestly, what makes it a religion? Its just a weird idea that nerds like to talk about.
I agree with singularity being like a religion. I think the singularity is nonsense. On the otherhand I don't think the rest of your accusations are accurate.
First, I'm not sure I would name Yudkowsky the leader of the singularity culture. Of lesswrong certainly, but lesswrong is dead. Yudkowsky is about as much a leader of the singularity stuff, as P.G. is of "hacker" culture. A big name with writings on philosophy and the culture. Honeslty I would name Kurzweil as a far bigger person w.r.t singularity stuff. He is far more known.
Furthermore no where does Yudkowsky say anything like "if you follow me you'll be saved". In fact he probably believes the singularity will save everyone (if friendly a.i).
This is where I expect you to bring up Roko's Basilisk. For those unaware, Roko's Basilisk is the idea that a A.I may retroactively punish people who didn't assist in it's development. Therefore if you don't want to suffer you should donate money and time to creating A.I.
First of all, this was idea was created by a guy called, Roko. Not Yudkowsky. Yudkowsky doesn't believe it. Yudkowsky's response among other things was to say that it was not ethical of Roko to write about the basilisk, if Roko really believed it to be true.
Kind of like how sometimes atheists will say that Christians shouldn't proselytize to people who have never heard of Christianity, because if they don't know about it, God can't very well send them to hell for their disbelief.
Anyways I am interested to hear why you felt so strongly you had to warn us off him. The hate Yudkowsky gets is something I don't understand but want too.
But cult-like at least to me implies more negative connotations. Isolating people from their friends & families. Abusive behavior towards its members. Stuff like that. Compounds where people live etc...
Has this singularity "cult" even hurt anyone?
Techno-libertarian? I'll grant you the techno part, but lesswrong/the internet rationality people are about 70% left-wing and 25% libertarian.
So, what cult does he run, and what makes it a cult?