News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy... by jqm on Saturday August 01, 2015 @03:43PM (#9988413)
More money would make me happier. I'd give up a few Saturdays for it. One day a week is enough rest. Besides, few pleasures compare to productively working.
Re:Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy... by ido on Saturday August 01, 2015 @04:21PM (#9988534)
More time off would make me happier. I'd give up $10k/year for it. $90k/year is enough money. Besides, few pleasures compare to spending quality time with your loved ones.

So now we have two pieces of anecdotal evidence, worth exactly twice as much as one (2*0)

Re:Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy... by jqm on Saturday August 01, 2015 @04:45PM (#9988607)
So do it. Do what makes you happy. If you aren't happy working or you don't get enough time off... change the situation. But don't spend a bunch of your life unsatisfied.
Re:Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy... by enraged_camel on Saturday August 01, 2015 @05:01PM (#9988658)
The vast majority of Americans simply do not have that choice. They can't go to their boss and say, "hey boss, I want to take a 10% pay cut and get an extra 2 weeks off." American work culture simply doesn't allow that.
Re:Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy... by jqm on Saturday August 01, 2015 @05:12PM (#9988699)
Any smart boss with decision making power should instantly give workers an additional 2 weeks off for a 10% pay cut. (Assuming the workers work more than 20 weeks a year and their duties can be taken up by someone else). It's pure profit at that point.

That aside... there is always a choice. Don't ever think otherwise. You don't have to stay there. You don't have to drive a nice car. Always a choice. It's just a matter of tradeoffs.

Re:Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy... by voidz on Saturday August 01, 2015 @05:41PM (#9988792)
It's not profit, it's saving money. But also less production. You get my point.
Re:Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy... by M2Ys4U on Sunday August 02, 2015 @12:39AM (#9989766)
It's only less production if you assume that productivity remains constant or decreases if you give the employee that extra time off.
Re:Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy... by ido on Sunday August 02, 2015 @09:51AM (#9990715)
I guess I didn't meet that many smart bosses then!
Re:Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy... by enraged_camel on Saturday August 01, 2015 @06:55PM (#9989040)
Again, easy for you to say when you're in your early 20s, single, no kids and few friends.
Re:Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy... by jqm on Saturday August 01, 2015 @10:47PM (#9989538)
I'm actually 44 years old. But sometimes I feel like I'm still in my early 20's. I credit it to staying interested and staying moving.

I'm not single either. I have a great girlfriend I've lived with for over 10 years.

I don't have kids and only a few close friends, so you did hit that part correctly.

Re:Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy... by ido on Saturday August 01, 2015 @05:08PM (#9988684)
I am actually a freelancer, my example was not of my current situation. But while I was employed it was very hard (I didn't manage to get it despite trying for a while) to get a job as a developer for less than full time regardless of salary.

Anyway that wasn't the point, my point was that stating your particular preference doesn't really add much to the conversation.

Re:Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy... by rch on Saturday August 01, 2015 @06:55PM (#9989038)
Don't give up - I heard of one in Boulder last year, and looking at their site, I see it's still listed.
Re:Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy... by ido on Saturday August 01, 2015 @11:54PM (#9989687)
I am quite happy with my freelancing but thanks :)
Re:Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy... by ZenoArrow on Saturday August 01, 2015 @04:40PM (#9988593)
What's the point of earning even more money if you're too busy to spend it?

There is a law of diminishing returns when it comes to money, past a certain point it's not worth the time you gave up to get it.

Put it another way, when you reach retirement age, would you rather be a millionaire with health problems or a modestly rich person in great health?

Re:Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy... by ctb_mg on Monday August 03, 2015 @11:02AM (#9996361)
Could you not potentially retire earlier? In that way you're basically "back-loading" all of your vacation time, if one could freely exchange salary for time off.
Re:Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy... by EliRivers on Saturday August 01, 2015 @04:33PM (#9988572)
few pleasures compare to productively working

There is something seriously wrong here. Many, many pleasures in life are as pleasurable, or more pleasurable, than productively working. For many people, productively working is actually not pleasurable.

Re:Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy... by wtetzner on Saturday August 01, 2015 @04:40PM (#9988590)
I suppose it depends on what you enjoy doing and what job you have.
Re:Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy... by tluyben2 on Sunday August 02, 2015 @01:28AM (#9989873)
Few pleasures compare to earning money/kudos/badges with something you love. Productivity? Eh? I worked stacking shopping goods for supermarkets when I was 13; doing 1000 did not feel better than 200 for anyone there, including the full time staff. I understand you probably meant something else but productivity needs definition here.
Re:Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy... by jqm on Saturday August 01, 2015 @04:44PM (#9988603)
Yes... there is something seriously wrong here. If you don't enjoy your work, quit! I work because I love it. The money is a nice side benefit.
Re:Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy... by toomuchtodo on Saturday August 01, 2015 @06:01PM (#9988850)
Most of American workers don't have that choice. The tech world is an echo chamber, and it's do well to realize we are a privileged few who can dicta to our compensation (for now).
Re:Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy... by EliRivers on Sunday August 02, 2015 @07:14AM (#9990401)
Do you work in Stockholm?
Re:Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy... by Cthulhu_ on Saturday August 01, 2015 @06:23PM (#9988935)
What I gather left and right, and from the story linked, is that in the US, working more hours does not equal more income. Maybe if you're a freelancer that can charge by the hours, but given the US's horrid worker protection, what is an employee in the US might as well be considered a temporary freelancer in other countries.

I'd probably work Saturdays if I got paid by the hour, but at the same time, if I did and it was a decent income I'd probably opt to work less - and I don't even have a family.

Re:Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy... by jqm on Saturday August 01, 2015 @04:57PM (#9988639)
I'm a little surprised by the negative reaction. You people don't derive pleasure from working... from the process of building things, from molding reality? I damn sure do. But then again... I'm an American.
Re:Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy... by yodsanklai on Saturday August 01, 2015 @05:47PM (#9988811)
It's not contradictory at all. One can derive pleasure from working, and still enjoy their free time. The good thing about free time is that you can use it to build things if that's what you want.

And don't forget that most people don't have the luxury of an enjoyable job.

Re:Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy... by tluyben2 on Sunday August 02, 2015 @01:21AM (#9989859)
That last point is debatable in the Western world but yes it holds globally.
Re:Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy... by enraged_camel on Saturday August 01, 2015 @05:10PM (#9988695)
I felt the same way when I was in my early 20s, had recently graduated from college, was single and had few friends. My idea of a good Saturday was one in which I sat at a coffee shop by myself and continued working.

A decade later, my perspective has widened and my priorities have shifted. I still derive a lot of pleasure from work (even though I wouldn't describe it as "molding reality"), but I also realize that work is ultimately a means to an end, which is to spend time with my friends and loved ones and/or develop my hobbies.

Re:Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy... by Daishiman on Saturday August 01, 2015 @05:58PM (#9988842)
Sure, I derive pleasure from work. But I don't work for free, and I would rather be doing a lot of other things that are more enjoyable, but less profitable, than working.
Re:Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy... by vacri on Saturday August 01, 2015 @09:20PM (#9989365)
Well, it's largely because you're trolling. It worked, too.
Re:Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy... by jqm on Saturday August 01, 2015 @10:42PM (#9989525)
I don't think trolling. I'm just saying I like being busy. I don't want hour and half lunches at the cafe. I don't want 6 weeks a year off. I like working, I like making stuff and I like making money. I like resting too. I rest especially well when I'm tired from work. It's a good feeling.
Re:Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy... by vacri on Sunday August 02, 2015 @12:59AM (#9989808)
"You guys are lazy. I like work... because I'm American" is a pretty garden-variety troll.
Re:Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy... by jqm on Sunday August 02, 2015 @09:27AM (#9990647)
Where is the word lazy mentioned or even implied?

I do like working. And this is a traditional characteristic of Americans. With all the America bashing that goes on (some admittedly deserved) this is a thing I'm particularly proud of about my country. I'm proud of what we have invented, what we have achieved in very short period of time. I'd like to be part of that tradition.

Your trolling accusation is entirely unfounded.

Re:Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy... by vacri on Sunday August 02, 2015 @05:06PM (#9992483)
"I didn't imply others were lazy, I'm just proud that America is different because we work hard"? Seriously?
Re:Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy... by jqm on Sunday August 02, 2015 @06:46PM (#9992797)
One would have to really stretch to get the lazy implication. America is different. That's factual. America does (or did) have a culture of hard work and innovation. I'm proud of this and don't make any attempt to hide that. That says nothing about other people.

I did take a moment to read the complaints in your profile and have some kind of idea that you might be susceptible to feeling abuse from public forums and have very rigid ideas of how people should behave in them. I encourage a bit more flexibility in your thinking. Again, not trolling. That accusation is way off base (and in fact, a trolling behavior itself). You really should apologize.

Re:Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy... by vacri on Sunday August 02, 2015 @08:53PM (#9993163)
> That says nothing about other people.

If you say group X is different because it has more of quantity Y, then it means that you think non-Xers have less of quantity Y. You can't say a demographic is noted for a virtue, then say that this is not a comment on other people - because those other people are the baseline against which the measure is made.

> You really should apologize.

Really? Right after you accuse me a stretching, then immediately use my profile to say something I never suggested? My profile commentary is asking for accountability in the way the forum moderation works, not demanding that people behave a certain way. People are free to disagree all they want, but the way the forum manages disagreement sucks - how many times do we see people genuinely puzzled about why their comments get downmodded, and asking for explanations?

It's also a bit much to be accused of being susceptible to feeling abuse, then having an apology demanded over a passing internet disagreement. You want me to grow a thick skin, but don't have one yourself?

Re:Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy... by jqm on Sunday August 02, 2015 @11:43PM (#9993648)
I'm not down voting you and I don't have any friends on here to do so. I don't know why you are getting greyed out.

I looked back through your comment history. Mostly reasonable comments with a couple of sort of unfounded accusations of trolling. I did see one comment where you talked about Japanese being hard workers and industrious. Would you consider that calling everyone lazy?

It doesn't matter. I gave my opinion. You are free to consider it trolling if you chose. I like working mostly. I'm proud of my culture. You seem like a generally decent guy. I'm dropping it.

Re:Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy... by vacri on Monday August 03, 2015 @07:40PM (#10000674)
Ironically this is a good example of the screed in my profile :)

We're being downvoted because we were in something of a flamewar, and people are trying to discourage that with downvotes. If there were mandatory reasons and attributions required for modding, you wouldn't have to second-guess what was going on. I also know it's not you downvoting because you can't downvote a direct reply to your own comment.

Anyway, yes, time to move on.

Re:Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy... by Cthulhu_ on Saturday August 01, 2015 @06:21PM (#9988924)
Do you live to work, or do you work to live?
Re:Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy... by jqm on Saturday August 01, 2015 @10:57PM (#9989563)
What's the difference?

Work. Bees don't do it.

[deleted]
Re:Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy... by cpach on Saturday August 01, 2015 @05:51PM (#9988820)
Please don’t make personal attacks here on HN.