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Re:Humans are underrated by lordnacho on Sunday July 26, 2015 @05:10AM (#9950589)
The article touches on the major areas:

- Jobs where we need someone to be responsible. You may have fancy diagnostic computers and automated scalpels, but you are going to want a doctor somewhere. A NLP algo might be faster, more accurate, and better at recalling old cases than a judge, but you're not going to be satisfied in a society where you open a website to find out whether you're going to jail.

- Jobs where interacting with a human is the whole point. There are things where humans are baked in.

- The oldest profession is not going to be replaced with robots until those robots are mistakable for humans, as in Blade Runner. Therapists and hairdressers are probably safe, too.

- Watch any major sport. They talk about where the players grew up, what kind of mentality you need to succeed, etc. You show up at the stadium to watch gladiators, not robots. You exercise your tribal nature by buying the jersey and screaming like an idiot. You want to see John Terry crying after missing the penalty. Emotion just isn't the same without people.

Re:Humans are underrated by minthd on Sunday July 26, 2015 @06:34AM (#9950685)
>> Jobs where interacting with a human is the whole point.

There's a computer game that teaches people cognitive behavioral therapy , a job a psychotherapist used to do.Some prefer tablets instead of waiters.Teachers might be replaced with machines. It's really hard to tell whether interacting with a person is the whole point for a given job, especially for jobs that machines do things humans cannot.

And another category of job killers people forget about is things that do the job in a totally different way, not just automate. For example a dental vaccine might make dentists unnecessary , and remove any questions of responsibility and humanness.

And with regards to emotion - it's hard to tell, but a weird data point is Hatsune Miku, the animated japanese popstar/phenomena.

Re:Humans are underrated by anon4 on Sunday July 26, 2015 @08:30AM (#9950867)
> responsible

That part is kind of weird to me. I understand you want someone to be "responsible", but what do you expect the response to be? This doctor failed to deliver, let's fire himher. What follows? You get a better doctor, hopefully. Wouldn't it be better to have an algorithm that can be improved when it fails, so you don't have to train a whole new doctor to replace the bad one? Plus, you can have every single robot doctor be exactly as good at everything. No more "you need to find the best surgeon for X". You can have as many best surgeons as you can economically build.

The responsibility would fall on the robot's designers to improve their software, so it doesn't make the mistake in question. And you will be able to assure people that no doctor will ever make that mistake ever again. Imagining that all these robots are linked, or at least synchronise every couple of days, they would learn a lot faster than a human.

Re:Humans are underrated by Trombone12 on Sunday July 26, 2015 @09:24AM (#9950972)
It would indeed be better if the doctor would get better every time it fails, but for that to happen it requires that the outcome of every treatment be the responsibility of the makers.

Consider software security, how have they historically handled patching known vulnerabilities?

Now, imagine a bug making these millions of doctors cut an order of magnitude too deep when performing some surgery, maybe because some driver error causes sudden acceleration of the cutting instrument. Forty people die on a patch Tuesday (it only happened for a rare procedure) before the makers manage to push out a hotfix. What should happen after this national hiccup?

Re:Humans are underrated by minthd on Sunday July 26, 2015 @09:55AM (#9951050)
The safety-critical software industry is very different from your example, and in general, the results are very good.
Re:Humans are underrated by aaron695 on Sunday July 26, 2015 @07:51AM (#9950792)
> The oldest profession is not going to be replaced with robots until those robots are mistakable for humans

It already has. It's the internet. Sex crimes go down when internet access goes up. It hasn't 'replaced' it 100% but that's the point with a lot of this stuff it is slowly reducing jobs without creating new ones.

I really don't think it'd be impossible to create a machine that cuts hair. Or making coloring hair at home/in salons easier.

Even if it's augmented by a human if it's 50% more efficient there might go half the jobs. Use robots so the staff need little to no training. Hair cuts would be cheaper so demand would go up, but jobs will still go.

In a failing economy paying to have your hair cut is an unnecessary expense. Things can start to fall pretty quick.

Re:Humans are underrated by lordnacho on Sunday July 26, 2015 @09:18AM (#9950958)
A lot of people are not going to the hair salon just have their hair cut. Having a chat is just as big a deal for many people.
Re:Humans are underrated by loup-vaillant on Sunday July 26, 2015 @09:34AM (#9950999)
Many people. Not all. Not most. Just many.

That won't be enough to preserve those jobs.

Re:Humans are underrated by raldi on Sunday July 26, 2015 @08:52AM (#9950908)
You're thinking about robots playing football, and laughing about how ridiculous it is to picture that, but there are indirect ways automation will first compete with the sport-watching industry; in fact, it already is.

Every time someone chooses to play a video game, or chat on Hacker News, or use any other new form of entertainment when a generation ago the best available option was to watch a traditional sporting event, you've got technology outcompeting the sport-televising industry.

And sometimes it's direct competition -- e.g., watching people play video games on Twitch or YouTube. Oh, and sometimes it isn't people who are doing the playing. Those are, in fact, some of the most interesting videos to watch.

Re:Humans are underrated by icebraining on Sunday July 26, 2015 @06:12AM (#9950662)
If the stats were significantly better, I'd take the completely robotic "doctor" any day. Why would I want someone to be able to override what is statistically the most accurate decision? It's not like they'd be negligent if they followed the computer's decision, and if they didn't, being able to sue them doesn't make up for the fact that I could have been better treated.

The article mentions we'd prefer to have a doctor "just to talk and know we’re being heard by a human being," and I agree that could be useful, but I wouldn't need a trained doctor, more like a conscientious customer support rep.

Re:Humans are underrated by marincounty on Sunday July 26, 2015 @08:41AM (#9950885)
At this point, I would welcome a completely robotic doctor.

Could you imagine, a Computer Doctor says, "I have throughly scanned every study, ever produced on SSRI's, and I don't want to make your life more difficult by a placebo response? I've made a calculated decision, and decided you might benefit from this off label drug. Try this drug for a few days? If it doesn't work, or you are skeptical of my recommendation; I have a Medical Doctors waiting for you at this hospital. Here are their resumes, work history, and patient evaluations. Just bring your ID. Money is not necessary.(Your taxes paid for this service.) Have a great day!"

Computer, "Your pain is real. Pick up your prescription for pain pills at the pharmacy of your choice. I will only need to see you once a year. If my database, shows any signs of abuse; I will direct you to a drug rehab facility." No ass kissing! No needless office visists(visits to make money?). No stereotyping?

In reality, I'm not for replcing doctors with computers; just the financial game some doctors have abused in order to become wealthy? I am definetly tired of office visits more than once a year for patients whom illness is stabilized.

Re:Humans are underrated by Trombone12 on Sunday July 26, 2015 @09:41AM (#9951019)
What you are thinking of is a perfect AI running bug free software. You need to consider the more realistic situation that your robot doctor is using a decision tree constructed by Microsoft, and its actuator firmware are from Toyota.
Re:Humans are underrated by pnt12 on Sunday July 26, 2015 @10:00AM (#9951061)
You could say that about google cars (they're prone to bugs) but they have made some serious progress over the years. One might say they drive better than humans already.

Let's not forget that humans aren't perfect. We cant process as much informations as computers and we make a lot of mistakes all the time. After all, to err is human.

Re:Humans are underrated by Trombone12 on Sunday July 26, 2015 @05:21PM (#9952234)
My point is not the issue of whether computers will driver better than humans or not, I merely want to remind you that computers aren't perfect and a bunch of people will die from bugs in the driving software so you better plan for that (Toyota got first blood already).
Re:Humans are underrated by lordnacho on Sunday July 26, 2015 @07:14AM (#9950743)
Me too. But I suspect there will be much resistance from the establishment. Certain things just seem like they can't let go of the human due to existing status quo. We could have automated airplanes as well, but I think regulation is going to tend towards the conservative "we need someone to be in charge" view.

It's probably more deeply ingrained in society that a doctor has to be a person than a truck driver.

Re:Humans are underrated by david-given on Sunday July 26, 2015 @07:29AM (#9950761)
ELIZA is, or at least was, actually used as a therapeutic tool: people would spend hours over a terminal, 'talking' to it. It worked because ELIZA wasn't a human and wasn't judgemental --- there was nobody actually there. And ELIZA is possibly the least convincing chatbot of all time.

So I can totally see how removing humans from the loop in certain jobs could be really successful. You mention doctors: I totally want AI doctors, which aren't going to get tired, aren't going to dismiss me as a hypochondriac, aren't going to skip routine tests because they're certain what's wrong with me, and above all, reduce the load on the human doctors so they get to concentrate on stuff the AI can't handle.

As for sport... well, actually, I don't want to do any of the things you mention, because I'm weird, but if you watch an episode of _Robot Wars_ you'll see people do exactly those things over what amount to a bunch of radio controlled cars.

Re:Humans are underrated by delinka on Sunday July 26, 2015 @08:08AM (#9950820)
"ELIZA [was] actually used as a therapeutic tool"

Can you provide a reference for this? I've only ever seen it referred to as a toy, an oddity; never an actual tool.

Re:Humans are underrated by david-given on Sunday July 26, 2015 @02:50PM (#9951857)
Um, no. I no longer remember where I read it and some web searches only show up a paper studying its use as a therapeutic tool, which isn't the same thing.

I don't believe I hallucinated it, but if it did happen it's obviously not widespread.

Re:Humans are underrated by Asbostos on Sunday July 26, 2015 @08:14AM (#9950835)
Paradoxically, they say we want people because they're accountable. At the same time the show that parole judges are consistently making wrong decisions. But they're presumably not being held accountable. Sure we feel nice imagining there's accountability, but in some professions it's only an illusion. The same goes for doctors in some countries. They can get away with carelessly killing a patient. There isn't real accountability there.

Even when there genuinely is accountability like drivers and pilots who pay for their mistakes with their lives, it doesn't stop them making careless mistakes. I seem to remember that pilot error is the cause of the majority of plane crashes. It certainly is for car crashes too.

Re:Humans are underrated by x5n1 on Sunday July 26, 2015 @08:25AM (#9950856)
Ideas are easy. Reality is hard. Doctors and pilots are often too stressed out to perform properly, if you are working 20 hour days you're probably out of it at hour 16. Careless mistakes often happen because people are expected to be machines. Humans were not made to do any of this. We're apes that have in a few thousands years decided we rather be machines. Not really decided, more like been coerced into being machines. And we don't know how to shut the system which tells us these things, which are lies, off. Just because you can do something, doesn't mean that you should. Human beings don't understand this concept. Just because you can do something, and someone wants you to, you absolutely should is the current human way of looking at the world.
Re:Humans are underrated by danieltillett on Sunday July 26, 2015 @07:06AM (#9950731)
>The oldest profession is not going to be replaced with robots until those robots are mistakable for humans, as in Blade Runner.

I am not so sure about this. When you consider what is the current alternative to the oldest profession then I think robots will achieve a high penetration.

Re:Humans are underrated by agumonkey on Sunday July 26, 2015 @07:11AM (#9950739)
It will be an uncanny valley. Better reading 50 shades of gray than playing with a Boston Dynamic doll. It would surely sell though, people are actually buying expensive dolls, I'm sure some of them would be tempted by a hugdroid.
Re:Humans are underrated by danieltillett on Sunday July 26, 2015 @07:32AM (#9950767)
I think social acceptance is likely to be the bigger holdback.

50 shades is an interesting example of this effect. Women supposedly weren’t interested in this area (not my personal experience), but get enough social acceptance and even an appallingly badly written book becomes a popular success.

Sex robots will face the same “icky” effect, but all it will take for them to become popular is social acceptance via a breakout event once they become good enough.

Re:Humans are underrated by agumonkey on Sunday July 26, 2015 @07:52AM (#9950793)
I think it's a deeper personal reaction, not a social thing, you're confronted with something close to a human that is not one. It won't work unless for a few people.