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Re:The Next Mark Zuckerberg Is Not Who You Might Think by aaron-lebo on Thursday July 02, 2015 @10:19AM (#9819013)
Who wants to be Jobs or Gates or Zuckerberg anyway?

Of course we all do, but that's pure ego. Each one of them was brilliant, there is no discounting that, but you also can't ignore the role that luck played. You can't just be brilliant and you can't just be lucky, you really have to be both to have the kind of success they did. It's not surprising that they are anomalies, hoping to recreate their success is like hoping to find a winning lottery ticket.

We shouldn't put any of them on a pedestal anyway. The empires of each of them was built on locking people into their closed systems at any cost. Jobs did some remarkable things, Zuck seems like he's going to do positive things with his fortune, and Gates might eliminate the world of a lot of disease, but you only have to look at past cutthroat titans like Andrew Carnegie to know that redemptive actions like that leave behind at best an ambiguous legacy.

There was a great piece on Grantland this week talking about Silicon Valley, Halt and Catch Fire, and Microserfs. It had this bit which I thought was really interesting:

"The moment reads two ways. Either it’s about Zuckerberg, for all his billions, being Just Like Us — a slave to the same digital toy to which we’ve subcontracted management of our memories, our personal interactions, and our sense of self-worth — or it’s about how Facebook, born of Zuckerberg’s sense of exclusion, has made us just like him. The notion that the tech visionaries whose inventions colonize our daily lives are actually uploading the virus of their personalities to the global unconscious is an idea that floats through The Social Network; it’s the engine that powers Alex Gibney’s forthcoming documentary Steve Jobs: The Man in the Machine, which stops just short of postulating that every iPhone includes a fragment of poor angry uncharitable emotionally stunted Steve’s immortal soul, like a sliver of wormwood from Mordor."

http://grantland.com/hollywood-prospectus/silicon-valley-hal...

If you want to be like Zuck, what is it about you that you are going to infect the world with?

Re:The Next Mark Zuckerberg Is Not Who You Might Think by vezzy-fnord on Thursday July 02, 2015 @11:00AM (#9819312)
It's pretty telling that everyone wants to be the next Steve Jobs, Bill Gates or Mark Zuckerberg, but very few want to be the next Niklaus Wirth, Alan Kay or Gary Kildall.

Far fewer are interested in computing so much as a gold rush that happens to use computing as its backdrop, which is overwhelmingly heading towards web-based media companies.

Re:The Next Mark Zuckerberg Is Not Who You Might Think by walterbell on Thursday July 02, 2015 @11:09AM (#9819392)
> gold rush that happens to use computing as its backdrop, which is overwhelmingly heading towards web-based media companies.

Yet Gates' and Jobs' gold came from edge clients, not web media. Clients have never been more powerful, why is there no modern gold rush in client software? Is it merely that SaaS/hosted software does not suffer from piracy?

Re:The Next Mark Zuckerberg Is Not Who You Might Think by virmundi on Thursday July 02, 2015 @11:39AM (#9819592)
I think is part of it. It's hard to pirate something you can't get a copy of.

Other things is that the web is more universal. Say I have a great client app. It works perfectly on a client Windows machine. If I want to tap the larger market I have to have an OS X version, an Android version, iOS (depending if I didn't target both when doing the OS X version), and a Linux version. To keep all of these people happy, the versions should be pretty much the same. That's hard to do with client software on multiple targets.

The web targets the lowest common denominator: browsers. Fortunately as those go, the VM that is the browser is pretty powerful. Sure I might not be in my preferred language, but I can get things done. If done right, powers are added as the device becomes more capable my leveraging existing frameworks like Bootstrap, etc.

Re:The Next Mark Zuckerberg Is Not Who You Might Think by boomzilla on Thursday July 02, 2015 @12:13PM (#9819847)
I think there are two other factors as why web apps are dominating client apps. The first is distribution cost. Even with AppStore and Android market, it's still very hard to get your app to the users. People browse to hundreds of different websites everyday, but very few try out tens of apps in their phone. The second factor is that the web is intrinsically a lot more connected. One web page/app can easily link to another with, doh, a link. The linking/back button semantics are well understood by all the users.
Re:The Next Mark Zuckerberg Is Not Who You Might Think by quadrangle on Thursday July 02, 2015 @02:37PM (#9820730)
"not suffer from piracy" really means "has more power to lock in and control people", and yes, that's a major factor.
Re:The Next Mark Zuckerberg Is Not Who You Might Think by jeswin on Thursday July 02, 2015 @11:46AM (#9819643)
It's mostly social conditioning.

Gates and Jobs are pop-stars of technology. A few hundred years into the future, we're more likely to see Charles Babbage and Alan Turing in text books than Gates and Jobs. Those text books are unlikely to be read by humans in the same physical form we exist today (unless something catastrophic happens), and the class of intelligent beings dominating that period will trace their lineage directly to inventors and scientists than businessmen.

Re:The Next Mark Zuckerberg Is Not Who You Might Think by Tloewald on Thursday July 02, 2015 @12:08PM (#9819800)
It's often the people who popularize ideas that are remembered for them (however unjustly), so I wouldn't care to predict who will turn out to be important to folks hundreds of years hence. If it's like today, there'll probably be popular figureheads and a bunch of academics trying to belittle them in favor of a pet forerunner, just as we can argue about whether, say, Alan Kay or Douglas Englebart should be the person people bring up to claim Apple didn't invent the GUI, or Smalltalk or Simula should be worshipped (or ridiculed) as the first OO language.

Whom should we remember: Gödel, Turing, or Cohen?

http://www.scottaaronson.com/democritus/lec3.html

Re:The Next Mark Zuckerberg Is Not Who You Might Think by DougMerritt on Thursday July 02, 2015 @12:34PM (#9819980)
> It's often the people who popularize ideas that are remembered for them

Unfair, that is not an answer to what he actually said:

> Those text books are unlikely to be read by humans in the same physical form we exist today

You're talking humans, he is not.

Re:The Next Mark Zuckerberg Is Not Who You Might Think by Tloewald on Thursday July 02, 2015 @12:53PM (#9820094)
How does it matter whether it's humans or uploaded humans or pure AIs that we're talking about. You think that AIs will necessarily be driven by pure logic and all agree on the fundamental root of any given idea?

I love how computer scientists seem to decide they've "solved" AI because neural nets can sorta- kinda- do something that we do unconsciously (like see) and blithely assume that we just need a bigger net to get "thinking". When have we ever built something more complex than, say, a bunch of rocks piled on each other, without understanding its basic workings?

Re:The Next Mark Zuckerberg Is Not Who You Might Think by DougMerritt on Thursday July 02, 2015 @01:43PM (#9820408)
What are you going on about? You seem to have a hot button about strong AI being impossible, but no one here was talking about AI. The OP was talking about future changes to biological humans.

> I love how computer scientists seem to decide they've "solved" AI because neural nets can sorta- kinda- do something

Citation needed. It turns out there are exactly zero computer scientists who have ever said anything even remotely like that.

But again, that's wildly off topic.

Re:The Next Mark Zuckerberg Is Not Who You Might Think by Tloewald on Thursday July 02, 2015 @02:52PM (#9820821)
> Those text books are unlikely to be read by humans in the same physical form we exist today (unless something catastrophic happens), and the class of intelligent beings dominating that period will trace their lineage directly to inventors and scientists than businessmen.

Sounds like assumed strong AI to me.

> Citation needed. It turns out there are exactly zero computer scientists who have ever said anything even remotely like that.

Why cite, you've apparently done the lit search.

From memory there's:

"Within thirty years, we will have the technological means to create superhuman intelligence. Shortly after, the human era will be ended."

That was in 1993 -- so we've got almost ten years left. Phew.

http://mindstalk.net/vinge/vinge-sing.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vernor_Vinge

Now he's a math professor, although his profession is currently "computer scientist" but I expect it to be very easy to find many other computer scientists who've said similar things, even going back to before neural nets. They may not be computer scientists you (or I) respect but...

I think some computer scientists spoke with similar confidence about LISP, but can't be bothered to find citations. (Obviously hard, since there aren't any, right?)

For really off-topic assumptions of this kind that push my button -- slower-than-light travel to other stars is often discussed as though it's a solved problem (e.g. Fermi's Paradox) despite the fact that it would require a really complex machine that was able to work flawlessly for hundreds or thousands of years. Again, something we're ludicrously far away from.

Re:The Next Mark Zuckerberg Is Not Who You Might Think by kedean on Thursday July 02, 2015 @04:06PM (#9821277)
That's not a very good example. He did not claim anybody had solved AI, he predicted that somebody would, based on trends at the time. You can't fault people for being optimistic about the future.
Re:The Next Mark Zuckerberg Is Not Who You Might Think by canadianboy on Thursday July 02, 2015 @02:10PM (#9820579)
I've seen this agrument before, and I doubt it. It hasn't happened in any other industry, why would computing be different? Say computer chips, people think Moore, not Pfann. Say airplane, people think Wright, not Bernoulli. Say car, people think Ford, not Otto. In the future, saying computers will almost definitely make people think Gates, not Babbage.
Re:The Next Mark Zuckerberg Is Not Who You Might Think by quadrangle on Thursday July 02, 2015 @02:38PM (#9820738)
Wonderfully said. Bill Gates remains net negative impact on the world at this point.

"If you are giving back, it means you took too much." See http://www.ted.com/talks/ricardo_semler_radical_wisdom_for_a...

Re:The Next Mark Zuckerberg Is Not Who You Might Think by antaviana on Thursday July 02, 2015 @05:30PM (#9821793)
It depends on how you look at it.

It turned out that Bill Gates is a kind of Robin Hood: in a sense, he robbed the rich (those who could buy a computer or who owned a software company) and gave it to the poor.

Unless you believe that richer people should be richer because they deserve it and poorer people should be poorer because they deserve it, I think that he made a positive impact on the world at this point by redistributing wealth.

Re:The Next Mark Zuckerberg Is Not Who You Might Think by quadrangle on Saturday July 04, 2015 @01:42AM (#9829369)
I don't know all the facts, but I know a lot about this particular case. I'm certain that Gates' impact on the world has been almost entirely transfer of wealth from less wealthy to more wealthy.

Microsoft's legacy been technologically bad (as in buggy lousy software), actively hurting (explicitly fighting against) the free software movement which aims to empowers regular people, and bullying governments around the world (literally taking taxpayer money). The elites of Microsoft took home among the greatest amounts of wealth of any company, and employees spend absurdly lavishly on all their business trips etc.

Microsoft is a good example of how richer people do NOT deserve their riches, so we're in agreement about the injustice of the system. Your idea that Bill Gates is on the right side of this is, well, almost completely backwards except that some of his philanthrophy is postive today. On the other hand, the Gates Foundation is a major pusher of Common Core testing in education, which is, by many accounts and perspectives, destructive and terrible policy. So, I'm not even sure that the Gates Foundation is all that positive, even there it's a mix.

Re:The Next Mark Zuckerberg Is Not Who You Might Think by anonbanker on Friday July 03, 2015 @02:25AM (#9823867)
the only way you could compare Gates to Robin Hood is if you've never heard of his letter to the Homebrew Computer Club[0]. But now you have, so you have no excuse anymore.

Gates made a career stealing from not just the poor, but the charitable[1]. Then he pioneered new ways to destroy competing markets[2] He'll have to cure cancer to offset the damage he's done.

0. http://www.digibarn.com/collections/newsletters/homebrew/V2_...

1. http://slashdot.org/story/00/05/02/158204/kerberos-pacs-and-...

2. http://www.catb.org/~esr/halloween/halloween1.html