News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Parapsychology: the control group for science by Alex3917 on Saturday December 05, 2009 @03:16PM (#978545)
If the findings of parapsychology are always false, then it's only because things cease to become parapsychology as soon as there is an established mechanism. Things go from being parapsychology to psychology all the time.

Synaesthasia, mirror neurons, and mystical experiences are three completely different parapsychological phenomena that have become accepted by mainstream science within the last ten years. I see no reason why science won't keep validating more paranormal theories in the future.

Re:Parapsychology: the control group for science by JulianMorrison on Saturday December 05, 2009 @05:52PM (#978775)
No, those were just wrongly categorized to begin with.

"The physics-defying spooky fact of X" belongs to parapsych (and I'd casually bet my life on the null hypothesis under good enough testing).

"Experience of X" belongs to neuropsych (and it reflects poorly on them if they dump it over the fence on the parapsychologists because it just sounds so spooky and unprofessional. Bah humbug.)

Re:Parapsychology: the control group for science by kurtosis on Saturday December 05, 2009 @03:30PM (#978573)
What's a mystical experience? I find parapsych pretty interesting, but I've never heard of this, at least in the context of mainstream science.
Re:Parapsychology: the control group for science by a-priori on Saturday December 05, 2009 @06:16PM (#978819)
Re:Parapsychology: the control group for science by Alex3917 on Saturday December 05, 2009 @07:28PM (#978894)
Those aren't mystical experiences. An experience is only a mystical one if it scores above a certain threshold on the empirically derived Mysticism Scale, and ghost experiences definitely would not qualify.
Re:Parapsychology: the control group for science by joeyo on Saturday December 05, 2009 @03:40PM (#978584)
Suggesting that mirror neurons were ever somehow parapsychology seems like a bit of a stretch.
Re:Parapsychology: the control group for science by Alex3917 on Saturday December 05, 2009 @03:47PM (#978593)
Mirror neurons themselves were never parapsychology, but they explain phenomena that were considered paranormal before their discovery:

http://health.howstuffworks.com/synesthesia.htm/printable

Re:Parapsychology: the control group for science by gwern on Saturday December 05, 2009 @08:05PM (#978927)
Hold on. This is a historical question; electromagnetism explains stuff that could be considered paranormal as well, but that stuff wasn't. Were the mirror neuron phenomena actually noticed, classified under parapsychology, and investigated by parapsychologists, producing results that had any connection to their eventual uptake by mainstream psychology/neurology?

The link doesn't mention anything like that; if anything, the example of the woman who thought mirror-touching was perfectly normal & universal suggests the opposite.

Re:Parapsychology: the control group for science by joeyo on Sunday December 06, 2009 @09:21PM (#980566)
No, I strongly doubt Rizzolatti and his colleagues considered their discovery to be parapsychology.
[deleted]
Re:Parapsychology: the control group for science by Alex3917 on Saturday December 05, 2009 @03:45PM (#978590)
So there are several names for the same thing: mystical experience, primary religious experience, enlightenment experience, etc.

But it's basically the experience of leaving your body, traveling through a tunnel toward a bright light, and then learning one or more of the noetic truths described here:

http://csp.org/experience/docs/stace-states.html

This experience is said to feel more real than real life, and to be largely ineffable. This is obviously problematic for science for a number of reasons. (For example, if it's true that there is such a thing as an ineffable experience, this means that the basic assumptions underlying all of science are false.)

Anyway in 2006 scientists were able to recreate mystical states in 60-70% of participants using a high dose of psilocybin. These experiences corresponded very well with the traditional mystical states as described by all the world religions. (Basically the vast majority of religions were created by people who had a 'primary religious experience'.)

If you want to experience this for yourself, you can sign up to be part of the next round of experiments at csp.org. Although there are definitely some pretty serious risks, so you wouldn't really want to sign up until reading a few books on the subject so that you understand these risks and can make an informed decision.

There is a podcast called Gnostic Media that has a really good interview with the researcher who did the 2006 Hopkins study. I'd highly recommend it. All of their interviews are actually really good.

Re:Parapsychology: the control group for science by joeyo on Sunday December 06, 2009 @09:33PM (#980578)
This experience is said to feel more real than real life, and to be largely ineffable. This is obviously problematic for science for a number of reasons. (For example, if it's true that there is such a thing as an ineffable experience, this means that the basic assumptions underlying all of science are false.)

Aren't all our subjective experiences ineffable? In other words we can only communicate our experiences to each other because our experiences are shared and by communicating egocentric analogies. Or to put another way: if a bat tries to explain to you what it's like to navigate with sonar it's going to seem pretty freaking ineffable to you! That's why they call it the Hard Problem. :-)

Re:Parapsychology: the control group for science by gort on Saturday December 05, 2009 @03:50PM (#978598)
if it's true that there is such a thing as an ineffable experience, this means that the basic assumptions underlying all of science are false.

Isn't the fact that these experiences can be induced by using a physical collection of molecules to do something physical to the brain an indication that, actually, they're just the sort of physical processes that are compatible with materialistic science?

Re:Parapsychology: the control group for science by pmichaud on Saturday December 05, 2009 @03:59PM (#978612)
Of course it's compatible! But that doesn't rob it of its magic. Just because we discover the lever, doesn't prove there isn't something tugging on the lever.

I have a couple articles on my site about how the concept of the "supernatural" is incoherent, but that it doesn't matter: we experience such a small subset of "reality" that we need a concept "outside the normal realm of experience." I called it "Hypernatural," for lack of a better term already in use.

Re:Parapsychology: the control group for science by Alex3917 on Saturday December 05, 2009 @04:03PM (#978619)
The issue is that if a phenomenon is indescribable through either words or math then how can we collect any independently verifiable data? It would be impossible to create any laws governing such a phenomenon, because we would never be able to see whether or not the laws fit the past data and were capable of predicting the future.