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Re:We need to rethink employee compensation by pzb on Wednesday June 24, 2015 @04:00PM (#9774107)
The percentage really doesn't matter. Assume that you could get a $150K cash/stock at a public company (meaning concrete valuation). A startup offers you $80K and says "here is equity to make up the difference". If you assume three years and a 10% chance of them being worth something that means you need RSUs worth at least $2.1M to meet expected loss of salary. I highly doubt you are getting that.
Re:We need to rethink employee compensation by harryh on Wednesday June 24, 2015 @04:06PM (#9774137)
Startups aren't a roll of the dice where they are all the same with equal probabilities of success.

Make good decisions. Join the right team.

Re:We need to rethink employee compensation by MCRed on Wednesday June 24, 2015 @05:49PM (#9774722)
Here's what 20 years of experience working for startups has taught me:

-- Either be a founder if you want to be there in the early days.

-- Or join a "sure thing". EG: Google, Twitter, Facebook about a couple years before they went public were already household names and really well known.

I don't know how much upside you get joining a sure thing like that, but that's how you make sure your options will come into money.

Being employee number 5-100 of the average Silicon Valley startups is a losing proposition because the risk adjusted value of your options will never compensate you for your lost salary. (especially if you have to live in California- you're better off working for a startup in Austin than California due to the cost of living and tax situation. The higher salaries in California don't cover the difference.)

And yes, blame me, I turned down being employee number 13 at what became a $6B enterprise software company. Would have been CTO or way up in the executive team because they were a bunch of biz guys who needed a hacker. Instead I worked for just a year for a small business (not really a startup this was before "startups")

But it's damn hard to tell the difference at those early stages.

And when questions like "what's the total number of shares outstanding on a fully diluted basis?" (back when companies would say "You'll get 10,000 shares!!!!111!!") are met with "sorry that's confidential" during the hiring process, it is a bit difficult to do proper due diligence.

Re:We need to rethink employee compensation by rfrey on Wednesday June 24, 2015 @08:22PM (#9775282)
When you think about that $6B company, which if you are human you will do from time to time, don't forget to remind yourself of the other companies you turned down in the same timeframe. You know, the ones that went out of business. :)
Re:We need to rethink employee compensation by ryandrake on Wednesday June 24, 2015 @06:18PM (#9774858)
This seems like good advice. There's definitely a "valley" where low (but not "Founder-low") employee numbers get all the risk and disproportional reward. But, I wonder, really how much someone hired at Google, Twitter or Facebook a couple of years before IPO _really_ got. We're still probably talking "nice bonus" money rather than "life changing windfall" money. And, for "nice bonus" money, it makes more sense to go for the security of a public BigCorp.
Re:We need to rethink employee compensation by harryh on Wednesday June 24, 2015 @06:23PM (#9774894)
If you were at Google as a mid level engineer in 2002 (2 years before the IPO) you DEFINITELY made life changing windfall money. DEFINITELY. Take whatever guess you seem have in your head and multiply it by 10. Probably more than that.

(I started at Google in 2004 and did pretty well.)

Re:We need to rethink employee compensation by storgendibal on Wednesday June 24, 2015 @07:43PM (#9775165)
This!!

There is another facet to your second point, I think. Even if the upside from the "sure thing" two years before they IPO is not great from a financial perspective, the career growth is much faster than joining a mature mega-corp. For example, many people who joined Google/FB/Twitter a year or two before the IPO are very senior at those companies now. Granted, not everyone who joined Google in 2004 is a VP, but the probability of rapidly growing your career as the company grows is much higher than for someone joining Microsoft in 2004.

That fast career growth leads to either 1) High compensation ten years later as a director/VP or 2) Exec roles at sure-thing unicorns with meaningful equity, should they choose to leave Google/FB/Twitter.

I think there are two justifications to go early stage if you care about the financial aspects:

1) Be the founder, as you said

OR

2) You have concrete reasons to believe that the company has a meaningful competitive advantage in a large market.

These examples are far and few. For example, Google in 1998 had a meaningful competitive advantage, but Facebook in 2004 certainly did not. WhatsApp in 2010 did not, but I'd argue with Carmack, Oculus might have had (although unsure in this case). As you said, it's really hard to say at such an early stage.

Of course, if financial upside is not a major concern, then impact, agility, working on interesting stuff, avoiding mega-corp red tape, are all valid reasons to go early stage.

Re:We need to rethink employee compensation by dman on Wednesday June 24, 2015 @04:42PM (#9774332)
If youre great at identifying the right team, why not work as a VC rather than working as an employee :) .
Re:We need to rethink employee compensation by harryh on Wednesday June 24, 2015 @04:56PM (#9774406)
Because I like making things and working with other people and don't really like meetings or traveling.
Re:We need to rethink employee compensation by dman on Wednesday June 24, 2015 @05:24PM (#9774597)
The biggest downward ticks to my personal net worth have been due to me relying on skills that I dont exercise often. Over time I have calibrated my judgement to mark the value of infrequently exercised skills to zero even though I might think I am a natural at them.
Re:We need to rethink employee compensation by MCRed on Wednesday June 24, 2015 @05:37PM (#9774658)
VCs are terrible at this. I can't tell you how many times in the past 20 years I've heard VCs say things like "you should move into [tangentially related area that we can't add value to that just had a big exit]"

For instance, when youtube got bought, VCs were all interested in investing in online video companies. At that point, though, Youtube had already been bought! They were like 5 years too late.

Re:We need to rethink employee compensation by dman on Wednesday June 24, 2015 @05:50PM (#9774726)
That might well be true, the point I was trying to make was that as an employee its dangerous to make decisions based on the belief that you are great at picking winning teams / companies. Sure VC's are bad it too, but theyre sensible enough to do it with other peoples money.