I spent the last 15 years trying to become an American and failed

Re:I spent the last 15 years trying to become an American an... by jfoutz on Tuesday June 23, 2015 @01:26PM (#9766165)

basic income, basic income, basic income. In the US there are a lot of cliffs in the support system. make over 10k? ok, you get nothing for support. This creates a terrible effect where people are unwilling to even try.

I think the key is picking a bare minimum standard, and any work beyond that is better. People need the incentive. Maybe it's just to buy booze, who cares? Working 5 hours a week must be better than actively avoiding work.

(perhaps not basic income, but that captures the idea of incentive to work while providing a worst-case floor for people. Perhaps the Scandinavian floor is unsustainably high.)

The non-workers still contribute to the economy with rent, food, bills, they're just horribly inefficient. Furthermore, 1 J.K. Rowling offsets a whole lot of people who actively avoid contributing. The possibility to live in poverty and create art has some pretty profound cultural effects.

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Re:I spent the last 15 years trying to become an American an... by danielweber on Tuesday June 23, 2015 @03:37PM (#9767175)

I'll support my taxes being raised to pay for more wage subsidy for the working poor.

I won't support my taxes going up in order to let people stay home and not work. I wouldn't even pay for that for my own kids, I'm surely not going to do it for some stranger's kids.

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Re:I spent the last 15 years trying to become an American an... by jfoutz on Thursday June 25, 2015 @12:06PM (#9778892)

There will always be lazy fucks who try to game the system. It's important to structure the system to ensure they're worse off than anyone else. Really, i think those people are very rare. If mom lets you live in the basement so you can masterbate and play video games all day, ok. but that's on mom, not us.

There are three cases that are far far more common, i'd guess 2-3 orders of magnitude. First, the person having a bad time. We've all worked with the guy who got cancer, or is going through a bad divorce, who just becomes worthless at work. Not everyone gets that bad, but some people can't keep it together. Those folks just need some time. In a year or two they'll get back on their feet and be amazing productive members of society.

Two, the crazy homeless guy. Part of that is not really being capable of asking for the help they need. I'm not sure what fraction are (i hate to say it this way, but there it is) fixable. I do know that getting drunk, passing out when it's 10 below, and going to the hospital consumes hundreds of thousands of dollars a year.

Third, it's not true of everyone, but there are certainly people that just can't work. Hellen Keller, perhaps some disabled veterans. Maybe someday, but there's no hope today.

A zero tolerance policy might be best. I'd say, we're better off as a civilization recovering as many people as we can, and just suck up the fraud caused by the handful of losers. I don't know how to avoid that, but i agree with you, fuck that guy.

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