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Re:An Insider’s Guide to Shenzhen Manufacturing by nakedrobot2 on Wednesday June 17, 2015 @12:37PM (#9733166)
This is more like a guide for how to lose all your money, and have your product design stolen, in the minimum amount of time.

I have seen too many Kickstarter projects crash and burn because they read guides like this, speed dated some factories, and then lost all their money in a bad production run, by a factory who doesn't really care about them.

Unless you work with a factory who you not only trust, but know that they have an extremely strong motivation to not steal your product, they will both screw up your product, and your design will be cloned in a matter of weeks.

Even friends I have who are Chinese, living in Hong Kong, have warned me that even for them, it is hard to find trustworthy suppliers and factories in Shenzhen.

We are going to be doing all our manufacturing and assembly here in Europe. Luckily we're making a more expensive item and we have this choice.

" But if you’re undertaking a serious endeavor and you’re looking to make mission-critical parts, you have to visit to really know the situation at your suppliers, to establish relationships with factory owners and staff, and to get a sense of their quality control standards. " NO NO NO NO NO. Unless you are going to MOVE THERE AND LIVE THERE, then you need to absolutely forget about manufacturing there. You WILL lose.

I don't want to sound down on Shenzhen - it is where almost all our beloved electronics come from - but seriously - it is an environmental catastrophe, there is ZERO intellectual property protection, it is full of scam artists, there is a nearly insurmountable language barrier, and yes, there are in fact plenty of completely competent, worthwhile, trustwothy electronics manufacturing assembly companies in nearly every country of the world. Unless you are going truly mass-market (>200,000 pcs) then you should absolutely not even consider taking it to Shenzhen.

Re:An Insider’s Guide to Shenzhen Manufacturing by andrewmb on Wednesday June 17, 2015 @01:14PM (#9733530)
To provide a somewhat-contrasting anecdote, I've been dealing with Chinese factories (mostly in the Pearl River Delta area) for the last 3 years, manufacturing fairly high-tech products. We haven't had any of the problems you describe. We did our first small manufacturing runs sight-unseen with our initial partners and everything went well. I think the story of cratered Kickstarters has more to do with creators who have little experience in manufacturing and no clue what they're doing in China, rather than some intrinsic failing of Chinese factories.

There are plenty of ways to make your BOM work in your home country, but at least in the US it's surprisingly difficult to get low volumes (<5k units) manufactured economically.

Re:An Insider’s Guide to Shenzhen Manufacturing by powertower on Wednesday June 17, 2015 @01:45PM (#9733809)
> manufacturing fairly high-tech products. We haven't had any of the problems you describe.

Only because of the nature of your product...

It's all about the product type, its price range, and the availability of reaching the customers.

A US company that made a general consumer-level (non-pro) 1 milligram scale (e.g., accurate on the weight to within 1-3mg) outsourced its manufacturing to China, which then had the same production lines make 2x the order, placed its own brand/sticker on the additional units, got it into the US, and had the various distributors provide it at a price that was 80% less than the company was selling them.

I bought one off Amazon. Why pay $200 when I can pay $20-$40?

If this is legal or not it does not matter - if it can be done it will be done.

In your case, the time is not just right. But the moment when everything aligns and they think they can compete with you...

Re:An Insider’s Guide to Shenzhen Manufacturing by No1 on Wednesday June 17, 2015 @03:05PM (#9734471)
I'm curious - which scale was ripped off?
Re:An Insider’s Guide to Shenzhen Manufacturing by contingencies on Wednesday June 17, 2015 @02:19PM (#9734105)
So what do you want, patents?
Re:An Insider’s Guide to Shenzhen Manufacturing by nakedrobot2 on Wednesday June 17, 2015 @03:17PM (#9734553)
Patents won't save you. Trademarks can help you prevent imports like this, but nothing will ever stop your product from being sold in other places, especially mainland china.
Re:An Insider’s Guide to Shenzhen Manufacturing by contingencies on Thursday June 18, 2015 @01:25AM (#9736963)
Right, so ... you've just re-iterated my point. Whinging about the nature of reality aint gonna change it.
Re:An Insider’s Guide to Shenzhen Manufacturing by nakedrobot2 on Thursday June 18, 2015 @02:45AM (#9737126)
No, my point is you need to find people who won't steal from you, not because you have patents, but because they're not scumbags. Going to Shenzhen, the odds are very much stacked against you with this.
Re:An Insider’s Guide to Shenzhen Manufacturing by contingencies on Thursday June 18, 2015 @03:03AM (#9737166)
Do small fly-by-night factories care about reputation? No, probably not. Does having your stuff produced elsewhere given this reality protect against its copying? No. Realistically, we just have to recognize that the exclusive right to produce something does not exist, except as vaguely enforced at retail through certain developed markets' monopoly-assisting enforcement arrangements... if you have enough dosh for lawyers to back it up. From a business standpoint, the cold hard truth is that producing anything physical is more about the object's distribution and marketing than the design and production, which can be monopolized only temporarily.
Re:An Insider’s Guide to Shenzhen Manufacturing by nakedrobot2 on Wednesday June 17, 2015 @03:19PM (#9734567)
How do you know that your product hasn't been cloned and sold inside China, for example?

Anyway, I am glad to hear that you're having good experiences, and I'd love to hear more about it. How can I contact you?

Re:An Insider’s Guide to Shenzhen Manufacturing by andrewmb on Sunday June 28, 2015 @05:11PM (#9795125)
The easiest way to know is to watch the chinese deal websites. I use those for sourcing anyway so I perform an idle search here and there. In all honesty, if you're getting cloned it's a positive signal that you have a potentially good product (at least on the higher end of the technology scale--for someone like an early-stage fitbit it would be disastrous if the cloners were capable). If you aren't able to watch deal websites, there are other pretty easy ways to track it.

It's also about the strategy of your development--you can take a few very small actions early on that will make it orders of magnitude more difficult to copy your product. But, generally, it's not worth a factory's time to clone your product, especially if it integrates manufacturing processes they don't have access too. I have this benefit because I work mainly with small factories and while they do cooperate with each other, there isn't the infrastructure or margins to allow them to do anything other than focus on building parts as quickly as possible.

My email should be in my profile, drop me a line!

Re:An Insider’s Guide to Shenzhen Manufacturing by wumbernang on Wednesday June 17, 2015 @01:35PM (#9733735)
Ah yes. A guy I know designed a simple voltmeter based on a uC and a 3 digit LED display for some radio equipment. Shipped the design out to china.

Look on ebay or aliexpress now...

Boy is he pissed about that.

Interestingly though the product that contained this ended up being built in the UK for only about 20% more. Shafted on import costs of components though.