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A comment on “An ISP in Asia is leaking routes to a Tier 1 transit provider”. Parent comment

Re:“An ISP in Asia is leaking routes to a Tier 1 transit pro... by ryanlol on Friday June 12, 2015 @07:55AM (#9705299)
You're completely ignoring the potential monetary damages. A plenty of financial systems use the internet. I've also heard of a couple of other businesses utilizing the internet.

"Shit happens" would've been applicable if this was solved in 5 minutes. Accidents like this are trivial to prevent with proper policies.

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Re:“An ISP in Asia is leaking routes to a Tier 1 transit pro... by forgottenpass on Friday June 12, 2015 @09:37AM (#9705735)
You're completely ignoring the potential monetary damages. A plenty of financial systems use the internet. I've also heard of a couple of other businesses utilizing the internet.

So what you're telling me is that these financial systems' risk analyses didn't result in them mitigating this risk (1), but because things went pear-shaped now the government needs to step in?

I was going to be unsympathetic to them, because in my field we have to analyze and then mitigate certain levels of risk. But I guess if your business is financial, bellyaching after the fact to the government is your mitigation.

(1) different design, SLAs, making sure service providers already have those policies, acceptable and expected levels of downtime, whatever...

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Re:“An ISP in Asia is leaking routes to a Tier 1 transit pro... by bigiain on Friday June 12, 2015 @10:08AM (#9705939)
There are "financial systems" who actually care enough about their comms network to build it themselves (Google for "High Frequency Trading in my backyard" for some great stories).

Any "financial system" who uses "the internet" without acknowledging and accepting the risk of this sort of downtime should probably be considered incompetent. (Of course, there are probably many such institutions where the techs are currently saying "We warned you! But you refused to authorise the budget to mitigate this!" - who are now baying for blood from people who never signed up to provide 100% reliable networking for some cheapskate financial firm...)

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Re:“An ISP in Asia is leaking routes to a Tier 1 transit pro... by ryanlol on Friday June 12, 2015 @10:10AM (#9705950)
There's also "financial systems" that cannot realistically operate on their own comms networks.

Online banking, PayPal, Bitcoin...

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Re:“An ISP in Asia is leaking routes to a Tier 1 transit pro... by SG- on Friday June 12, 2015 @11:37AM (#9706533)
And sometimes their sites or systems go down because of their own issues.
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Re:“An ISP in Asia is leaking routes to a Tier 1 transit pro... by ryanlol on Friday June 12, 2015 @11:56AM (#9706664)
That's their fault. Sometimes their sites go down because of someone attacking them (intentionally or not).
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Re:“An ISP in Asia is leaking routes to a Tier 1 transit pro... by georgerobinson on Friday June 12, 2015 @12:45PM (#9707026)
I see you're very much concerned about liability and financial compensation here. I'm no lawyer so I don't know whether it could be a criminal offence to export prefixes like this either intentionally or by accident. However, we don't know what SLA agreements the financial institutions you speak of had with their providers. If said institution has paid for a 100% reachability guarantee then I would presume they are entitled to financial compensation. Everyone else, not so much.
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Re:“An ISP in Asia is leaking routes to a Tier 1 transit pro... by ryanlol on Friday June 12, 2015 @01:31PM (#9707336)
I'm really not focusing on financial compensation here (I'm more interested in discouraging people from breaking the internet) , with the amount of people affected that's a topic you could write books on.

I am focusing on liability though, I very much believe Telecom Malaysia should face criminal charges for this (I do not know if they should be sentenced though, as I am not aware of all the facts. That's up for the court to figure out)

In most countries (I do not know if this applies to Malaysia too, but I believe it should) denial of service attacks are a criminal offence, I'd say exporting prefixes like this would constitute as one.

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Re:“An ISP in Asia is leaking routes to a Tier 1 transit pro... by georgerobinson on Friday June 12, 2015 @03:06PM (#9707922)
I agree that denial of service attacks are at best unlawful. However, an attack? I think not. For it to be an attack I would presume there must be some evidence of malice and intent. I have seen no such evidence of this.
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Re:“An ISP in Asia is leaking routes to a Tier 1 transit pro... by ryanlol on Friday June 12, 2015 @03:40PM (#9708095)
I don't actually think it's an "attack" either. But guilty or not is binary, the actual sentence tends to be affected by details such as malice and intent.
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Re:“An ISP in Asia is leaking routes to a Tier 1 transit pro... by ryanlol on Friday June 12, 2015 @10:09AM (#9705943)
Seatbelts are risk mitigation, but I guess you still wouldn't be happy if someone crashed their car into yours.
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Re:“An ISP in Asia is leaking routes to a Tier 1 transit pro... by michaelt on Friday June 12, 2015 @09:31AM (#9705701) 

  You're completely ignoring the potential monetary damages.
If there's a car accident that closes the road, it's frustrating for everyone involved. But if someone's crash means I'm late for a vital sales meeting and I lose a multi-million-dollar contract, I wouldn't blame them for my consequential losses.
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Re:“An ISP in Asia is leaking routes to a Tier 1 transit pro... by ryanlol on Friday June 12, 2015 @09:56AM (#9705857)
If someone causes a car accident because of their gross negligence, they'll most likely face criminal charges.
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Re:“An ISP in Asia is leaking routes to a Tier 1 transit pro... by rosser on Friday June 12, 2015 @10:17PM (#9709614)
But even if they do, they won't (and shouldn't) be held liable for any subsequent things that happen in your life because you were delayed in traffic, consequent to that accident.
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Re:“An ISP in Asia is leaking routes to a Tier 1 transit pro... by ryanlol on Saturday June 13, 2015 @05:06AM (#9710403)
Did I ever suggest that?
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Re:“An ISP in Asia is leaking routes to a Tier 1 transit pro... by tomjen3 on Friday June 12, 2015 @11:08AM (#9706336)
You should do that though: it would allow us to know the complete cost of the accident so we can allocate the correct number of resources to preventing it.
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Re:“An ISP in Asia is leaking routes to a Tier 1 transit pro... by semi on Friday June 12, 2015 @03:39PM (#9708092)
Should the complete cost of the accident include monetary losses from people who had no plans for dealing with unexpected delays? Or to put it another way; Lets say you're driving across a bridge with your laptop in your car and you get hit causing you to drive through the rail and into the ocean. Should the 'complete cost of the accident' change based on whether or not you were smart enough to make backups?
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Re:“An ISP in Asia is leaking routes to a Tier 1 transit pro... by nowayback on Friday June 12, 2015 @09:21AM (#9705642)
If they can't take something like this, they should not depend on public packet-switched networks. In many ways, "the internet" is a victim of it's own success - it works so well most of the time that people come to expect too much of it.
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Re:“An ISP in Asia is leaking routes to a Tier 1 transit pro... by pyvpx on Friday June 12, 2015 @08:52AM (#9705511)
I invite you read over the history of IRR and summaries of SO-BGP, S-BGP, PBGP, and MC-BGP.
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Re:“An ISP in Asia is leaking routes to a Tier 1 transit pro... by ryanlol on Friday June 12, 2015 @10:03AM (#9705897)
I'm very well aware, just because there's a history of people messing up doesn't mean the people that mess up shouldn't be held responsible.
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Re:“An ISP in Asia is leaking routes to a Tier 1 transit pro... by pyvpx on Friday June 12, 2015 @11:56AM (#9706661)
I was responding specifically to your "trivial to implement" comment.
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Re:“An ISP in Asia is leaking routes to a Tier 1 transit pro... by ryanlol on Friday June 12, 2015 @12:42PM (#9707003)
Policies to defend against these mistakes are trivial to implement. Testing of configs before deploying, live monitoring of newly deployed configs.
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Re:“An ISP in Asia is leaking routes to a Tier 1 transit pro... by pyvpx on Friday June 12, 2015 @01:15PM (#9707235)
what makes you think it is trivial? how do I generate an accurate prefix list of who should be announcing what, when?
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Re:“An ISP in Asia is leaking routes to a Tier 1 transit pro... by ryanlol on Friday June 12, 2015 @01:32PM (#9707339)
Surely YOU know what YOU should be announcing.
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