What's amazing is that the US penal system acts the way it does even when these examples have been on the planet for decades and the benefits clearly visible. It also seems that the general consensus among psychologists and psychiatrists is that the current system damages people and does nothing to achieve its alleged aims. Running a third world penal system only burdens our society in so many ways, and it's even officially named in the third-world/soviet/despotic style of calling it something it's not: a "correctional" system.

I've said many times that if I was ever on a US jury (which would never happen; I'm Norwegian, living in the UK, and even if I at some point where to be resident in the US, this attitude would get me out of jury duty very quickly:),

I would have a hard time voting for a guilty plea except in the most exceptionally horrible cases, because I would find it exceptionally hard to justify making anyone suffer through the US prison system. That would include if it was a murder trial or similar.

Not only do I find the US prison system immoral for its treatment of inmates, I find it immoral for the violence it is indirectly responsible for inflicting on wider society by actively treating people in a way known to at best be ineffective, and at worst having a massively negative effect on re-offending rates.

Anyone worried about violent crime in the US should start by demanding reform of the prison system.

This is partially why the innocence and sentencing portions are separated.

And that separation is a substantial part of why I'd find it hard to morally justify giving a "guilty" vote given the penal system in question.

"The thing with the war on drugs, and the question we have to ask is, not why is it a failure, but why given that it seems to be a failure - why is it persistent?

And I'm beginning to think: Maybe it is a success. What if it's a success by keeping police forces busy? What if it's a success by keeping private jails thriving. What if it’s a success keeping a legal establishment justified in its self-generated activity? Maybe it’s a success on different terms than the publicly stated ones."

The US justice system works great for the ones who are being paid to keep it running.

"People who are treated like animals tend to act like it"

I'd alternatively say that "people tend to act defensively/aggressively when they are mistreated the way humans mistreat other animals so often"

I'd say its not just "mistreatment" of animals, because even the stuff you do to beloved animals would be demeaning to a human being. Especially the part about controlling virtually every part of their lives. For pets, that is ok or even better than most alternatives. For Humans? Hell on earth.

Thanks, I wish one day that view on animals will stop. Too much hypocrisy coming from humans.