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Re:Silicon Valley hiring is not a meritocracy (2013) by iamthepieman on Friday May 15, 2015 @01:49PM (#9552307)
I don't understand the author's problem with "look good on paper" This is paper that the applicant has full control over. The applicant can put whatever they want on their resume and cover letter. Sure this is a writing challenge that doesn't correlate directly with engineering ability but being able to communicate the value of your ideas and explain technical ideas and methods to people with different backgrounds and skill levels seems like something that's just as necessary as engineering ability.

It's always been my mantra that if you can't explain something to someone with no background in it then you don't truly understand what you're trying to explain.

Re:Silicon Valley hiring is not a meritocracy (2013) by vonmoltke on Friday May 15, 2015 @01:58PM (#9552389)
> I don't understand the author's problem with "look good on paper" This is paper that the applicant has full control over. The applicant can put whatever they want on their resume and cover letter.

Yes, up to and including blatant lies. If your company establishes a reputation of screening resumes based on certain features like university you encourage less moral applicants to fluff up their resumes. While these people may not make it through the interview stages, they force the competent but humble or disadvantaged applicants out at the resume screening stage.

> It's always been my mantra that if you can't explain something to someone with no background in it then you don't truly understand what you're trying to explain.

True, but in some cases people aren't allowed to talk about what they have done at that level. That puts anyone from a defense contractor, HFT firm, R&D group, and similar at a significant disadvantage because they can only advertise what they are doing in the broadest terms, if at all.

Re:Silicon Valley hiring is not a meritocracy (2013) by iamthepieman on Friday May 15, 2015 @02:18PM (#9552545)
> Yes, up to and including blatant lies

I wasn't suggesting that people lie on their resume or cover letter.

> That puts anyone from a defense contractor, HFT firm, R&D group, and similar at a significant disadvantage.

I was a defense contractor and experienced this first hand. I found that good communication skills both verbal and written were able to overcome this. Since the hypothetical non-technical recruiter in the OP isn't going to understand the technical things that you can't talk about anyways, being able to communicate how you added value is even more important.

Re:Silicon Valley hiring is not a meritocracy (2013) by vonmoltke on Friday May 15, 2015 @02:30PM (#9552655)
> I wasn't suggesting that people lie on their resume or cover letter.

I know, and I did not intend to suggest that. I'm just pointing out that people do, and it distorts resume pre-screening.

> I was a defense contractor and experienced this first hand. I found that good communication skills both verbal and written were able to overcome this. Since the hypothetical non-technical recruiter in the OP isn't going to understand the technical things that you can't talk about anyways, being able to communicate how you added value is even more important.

That depends on what you are working on. My first program, I could give you a pretty good description of what I did and how I contributed to the program in meaningful ways. My second program, I couldn't even say what it was when I first started. Even now I'm severely limited as the program has a very low public profile. What is actually in my resume now is pretty much the extent of what I can say.

Re:Silicon Valley hiring is not a meritocracy (2013) by iamthepieman on Friday May 15, 2015 @02:38PM (#9552718)
I definitely have some things like that in my work history and I totally understand where you are coming from. In my experience, in this very specific instance of having done things you can't talk about, the aurora around having done classified work usually balances out the fact that you can't talk about it.
Re:Silicon Valley hiring is not a meritocracy (2013) by jbrandmeyer on Friday May 15, 2015 @02:58PM (#9552857)
I have a similar situation in my work history. In my particular case I was consulting for a commercial firm with a duty of very strict confidentiality. Disclosing what I did for them would reveal their future consumer product plans. We discussed that I could freely disclose what I did as long as I didn't disclose who they were. So my resume has a line item marked "Client Confidential" and then I provide the technical details of what I did for them.

That's a bit harder to do in the case of classified material, but maybe there is a similar balance you can strike?

Re:Silicon Valley hiring is not a meritocracy (2013) by fsk on Saturday May 16, 2015 @12:36AM (#9555069)
>> Yes, up to and including blatant lies

>I wasn't suggesting that people lie on their resume or cover letter.

Suppose a job ad asks for 10+ years of node.js experience.

They get 5 resumes that claim 10 years of node.js experience. They get 5 resumes that claim 1 year of node.js experience.

They interview only the 5 people who claimed 10 years of node.js experience.

So the liars push the honest people out of the interview pool.

Re:Silicon Valley hiring is not a meritocracy (2013) by mmatants on Friday May 15, 2015 @06:07PM (#9553976)
> competent but humble

This is the issue that I have with job postings demanding "kickass developers/designers/etc".

I am good at what I do, but I would never use terms "kickass ninja" or "top shelf hacker" to describe myself, on principle. My work is not antagonistic and not competitive against other programmers or anyone else, so no "kicking ass" for me, and "top shelf" in this young industry just sounds silly, since there are new tools and patterns to learn every day.

It's weird that we're trying to attract good people as if it's still year 2000 and everyone will work for Mountain Dew and skateboard stickers.

Re:Silicon Valley hiring is not a meritocracy (2013) by leeny on Friday May 15, 2015 @01:58PM (#9552386)
Author here. The issue is that, much of the time, people reading the paper just look at proxies (for speed reasons and because they're disincentivized to select wild cards). You can do a fantastic job of explaining your projects, but if you don't have pedigree, the reader's eyeballs may never go far enough down the page. It's a matter of how these things are weighed, and the weight assigned to credentialing >>> the weight assigned to everything else.
Re:Silicon Valley hiring is not a meritocracy (2013) by iamthepieman on Friday May 15, 2015 @02:25PM (#9552619)
I don't even have a degree. I've always made it to the interview stage by putting myself on the cover letter and, to a lesser extent, in the resume. I might say what I would like to do for the company, mention some changes or improvements I would make to their products or tell them why I think they could use a geospatial engineer even if they don't use GIS in an obvious way in their publicly facing APIs/products.

This is just as much a filter for me as it is for the company.

One thing I've learned in my job searches is that I'm looking to filter just as much and quickly as the companies I'm applying to.

Re:Silicon Valley hiring is not a meritocracy (2013) by Swizec on Friday May 15, 2015 @02:07PM (#9552464)
> but if you don't have pedigree, the reader's eyeballs may never go far enough down the page

Solution: put your pedigree at the bottom of the page. Someone looking at my CV needs to get through all my projects and past successes before they get to the bullet point that says "5 years college, no degree".

Why on earth would you put your weaknesses first?

Re:Silicon Valley hiring is not a meritocracy (2013) by leeny on Friday May 15, 2015 @02:15PM (#9552526)
Recruiters are good at quickly scanning for pedigree before incurring the cognitive load required to grok projects. So, I don't think placement/layout matters that much. And pedigree doesn't just refer to your degree -- it's also the brand name factor of where you've worked.

Not saying this is OK, for the record.