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Re:Mozilla Launches a New Firefox Version Without DRM Support by dec0dedab0de on Tuesday May 12, 2015 @04:50PM (#9534771)
but it looks like the users just don't want to be free.

The users don't care. I have never been able to convince a layperson why DRM should matter at all to them, have you?.

Re:Mozilla Launches a New Firefox Version Without DRM Support by DanBC on Tuesday May 12, 2015 @06:46PM (#9535500)
"That DVD you bought? The one from a different region? It won't play and the reason it won't play is because of DRM. You think you can just put it in your laptop and use VLC, but you forget that your laptop DVD drive is probably region-locked in firmware, so although yes VLC ignores region coding the drive doesn't, and will enforce the region coding and refuse to play your DVD. I can fix it for you. Here's the list of stuff we need to do:

1) Find out the drive name and model number. 2) Find and download a firmware file for that drive. 3) Patch the firmware to turn it either into RPC1 or into auto-restarting RPC2. 4) Flash the file. 5) Carefully never ever use certain software and always cancel out of certain dialog boxes.

All this just because rights-holders want to stop you buying a new DVD from outside your region."

Re:Mozilla Launches a New Firefox Version Without DRM Support by pikzen on Tuesday May 12, 2015 @07:32PM (#9535718)
The amount of people buying off-region DVDs is awfully low. There are a thousand betters reasons to reject DRM such as not owning your product anymore ("That iTunes music ? Yeah, they can revoke your access at any time.").
Re:Mozilla Launches a New Firefox Version Without DRM Support by npinguy on Tuesday May 12, 2015 @08:26PM (#9535938)
The ability to do something does not hold any weight with the people you're trying to convince. "Oh sure, Apple can revoke my access time, but they never would!"

It's the same thing as "Oh I'm sure the government COULD access all my data, but why would they want to?"

Region-locking affects more people than you might think, just not with DVDs anymore. Most of the world using reddit/hackernews/the internet is constantly faced with the frustration of clicking on a youtube link and seeing the copyright notice that says the content is restricted to US-only.

Re:Mozilla Launches a New Firefox Version Without DRM Support by byuu on Tuesday May 12, 2015 @08:46PM (#9536014)
The US gets that, too. We get it a bit less because so much is produced here; but I've definitely had my share of "Sorry, the owner of this video has not made it available in your region" notices.

It would be nice if it told me which regions were allowed, so I knew which VPN I should use :P

Re:Mozilla Launches a New Firefox Version Without DRM Support by SaberUK on Wednesday May 13, 2015 @05:00AM (#9537638)
Most music bought from iTunes has been DRM free for many years.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/7813527.stm

Re:Mozilla Launches a New Firefox Version Without DRM Support by azakai on Tuesday May 12, 2015 @07:29PM (#9535707)
> The users don't care.

That's true, but I think it's a cop out.

When Google, Microsoft and Netflix specced, implemented and shipped EME, there was no significant pushback. Of course, as you say, average users don't care - they don't even understand the issue. But tech people didn't care enough either.

Instead, tech people flocked to products made by at least 2 of those 3 responsible for EME. And they kept installing those products for their non-techie relatives and so forth.

The real reason EME was not stopped is that people in the tech industry didn't care. A few of us did, of course, but the majority of us simply didn't. Most tech people agree that DRM is bad, but as a group we did not decrease our usage of Google, Microsoft and Netflix products containing EME.

We could have stopped this. We didn't.

Re:Mozilla Launches a New Firefox Version Without DRM Support by dabockster on Tuesday May 12, 2015 @04:54PM (#9534791)
Right on it. Most users use the things they do because they're either easy or there is no other feasible choice. Will a user download a plugin when a browser can now "guarantee" most forms of content to play without one? I know I probably wouldn't.

Adobe just became an unwritten standard... again.

Re:Mozilla Launches a New Firefox Version Without DRM Support by angersock on Tuesday May 12, 2015 @05:21PM (#9534990)
That's the annoying part, right?

Surely there was, at least, some kind of open-source alternative for getting/fetching/caching these keys? Or does it truly rely on blackbox obfuscation?

Re:Mozilla Launches a New Firefox Version Without DRM Support by jarrettc on Tuesday May 12, 2015 @06:30PM (#9535428)
> Or does it truly rely on blackbox obfuscation?

The client ultimately has to decrypt the data somehow. So the key is there on the client. I take it obfuscation is the only thing standing between the user and that key. Am I correct about that?

Which makes me wonder: How much security does HTML5 DRM really provide? Security through obscurity is a very weak defense, and one that is almost invariable defeated sooner or later. Will this really prove a hindrance to piracy in the long run?

Re:Mozilla Launches a New Firefox Version Without DRM Support by serge2k on Wednesday May 13, 2015 @05:15AM (#9537688)
This isn't security through obscurity, unless the DRM implementation being a secret actually does provide security. I doubt it does, beyond the fact that an audit of the source could probably find a load of security issues.

Of course an audit of OpenSSL would do the same.

Re:Mozilla Launches a New Firefox Version Without DRM Support by dec0dedab0de on Wednesday May 13, 2015 @08:59AM (#9538518)
* unless the DRM implementation being a secret actually does provide security.*

It Does, because it is illegal(at least in the US) to reverse engineer it.

Re:Mozilla Launches a New Firefox Version Without DRM Support by jarrettc on Wednesday May 13, 2015 @06:34PM (#9542429)
> This isn't security through obscurity

I don't necessarily disagree. But how, other than through obscurity, does HTML5 DRM inhibit copying, given that the client possesses the decryption key? (Let's assume the would-be attackers aren't dissuaded by any laws that might apply.)

Re:Mozilla Launches a New Firefox Version Without DRM Support by angersock on Tuesday May 12, 2015 @05:20PM (#9534984)
The best I've gotten is when we can't watch something on a project from a macbook because ~hdcp~.
Re:Mozilla Launches a New Firefox Version Without DRM Support by therealfoxy on Tuesday May 12, 2015 @04:53PM (#9534781)
Yep - when they asked why the online service that they bought DRM ridden content from closed, and now their purchases were lost (they were asking what to do/how to do it).
Re:Mozilla Launches a New Firefox Version Without DRM Support by dec0dedab0de on Tuesday May 12, 2015 @05:06PM (#9534878)
That is a really good argument, but doesn't apply to streaming.
Re:Mozilla Launches a New Firefox Version Without DRM Support by jamespo on Tuesday May 12, 2015 @05:44PM (#9535146)
What service was that?
Re:Mozilla Launches a New Firefox Version Without DRM Support by PhantomGremlin on Tuesday May 12, 2015 @06:36PM (#9535459)
There have been a plethora of these. I don't remember much because I'd NEVER pay for DRMed media that I wasn't sure I couldn't get around. E.g. DVD is OK since there are plenty of rippers.

Here are a few cases I recall:

Microsoft screwed a bunch of people with PlaysForSure. Even the brown bar of turd wouldn't play it:

   The Zune and PlaysForSure music are both
   Certified for Windows Vista, yet the Zune
   cannot play PlaysForSure music purchased
   from the MSN Music Store[1]
MLB did the same thing:

   Some hardcore baseball fans have been left
   stranded on third base by Major League Baseball
   after it decided to change DRM systems. As a
   result, game footage purchased under the old
   DRM scheme are no longer viewable, leaving fans
   with unwatchable footage—and no refunds.[2]
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plays_for_sure [2] http://arstechnica.com/uncategorized/2007/11/major-league-ba...
Re:Mozilla Launches a New Firefox Version Without DRM Support by dabockster on Tuesday May 12, 2015 @04:57PM (#9534807)
How many people is that, though? 10 out of the 7 billion people on Earth? That's a very small fraction.

Unless the world population suddenly decides to become digitally literate enough to understand the web in a programmer's context, these patterns of bad unwritten standards will continue out of convenience for the "soccer mom" end user.