News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Calgary couple fight their children's school to stop home... by patio11 on Thursday November 19, 2009 @01:21AM (#949836)
Entirely separate from the question of how much homework is optimal: my mind boggles that some parents don't consider educating their children to be one of their responsibilities.

"[H]omework, spelling words included, “is not a part of our family life,” [a Halifax health-care worker] says. “I don't see why 6 1/2 hours of formal schooling isn't enough for an eight-year-old.”

After growing up in an Asian neighborhood and then going to good schools (which are almost by definition very Asian neighborhoods), then moving to Japan, I find my brain just totally vapor locking on this statement. "Thats funny, it almost sounds like she's expecting all education to take place at school. Ha, hah. Wait BOOM. She can't BOOM Is that even allowed?!"

Re:Calgary couple fight their children's school to stop home... by protomyth on Thursday November 19, 2009 @01:38AM (#949860)
I think it comes down to children being assigned up to 4 hours of homework (some of which is not reviewed by the assigning teacher) on top of 6 1/2 hours of in school time. Anyone who puts in 10 hour days as an adult feels the stress fairly shortly, never-mind a child under the same strain for 9 months.
Re:Calgary couple fight their children's school to stop home... by gloob on Thursday November 19, 2009 @02:14AM (#949889)
I'm twenty years old; I was in elementary school slightly less than a decade ago. I'm reasonably sure I almost never had 4 hours of homework a week, much less 4 hours a day. So the options that present themselves to me are:

  1) my teachers were all incredibly slack by modern
     standards (which strikes me as unlikely)
  2) I am far, far more intelligent than most people (which
     strikes me as highly unlikely)
I suppose it's possible that there are just outlier schools where such a thing is the norm, but it's something completely alien to me.

Is anyone here capable of relieving me of my ignorance?

Re:Calgary couple fight their children's school to stop home... by bmj on Thursday November 19, 2009 @07:02AM (#950093)
(Full disclosure: we homeschool our kids.)

My impression is that things have changed in the last ten years. We have friends with young kids who have been through interview processes for preschool. Other friends have complained about the academics in their kids' preschool, or kindergarten (academics in kindergarten? Really? I recall playing and napping, and maybe learning the alphabet.) Many parents are concerned with preparing their kids for college while still in grade school, and the in many cases, it is likely the schools caving to the pressures of parents--they feel without homework, their kids won't be properly prepared.

That said, I don't think this is universal. We have friends who teach at smaller private schools that follow a more classical education model, and their students generally aren't required to do large amounts of homework.

Re:Calgary couple fight their children's school to stop home... by shelfoo on Thursday November 19, 2009 @09:29AM (#950265)
I live in Calgary, we don't home-school our kids.

I have two children, 11 (grade 6) and 8 (grade 3). The homework is about an hour each night for the 8 year old, and can vary greatly for the 11 year old, anything from 1-2 hours (practicing what they were taught that day) to "projects" requiring about 16 hours of work over 2 weeks. They're both very bright children (yes, I know that all parents say that about their kids).

Do I think it's too much? Tough call. I do think it's ridiculous that my daughter is carting around a backpack to and from school that weighs half as much as she does. Also irritating is that the onus is on the parents to ensure that things get done, I'd rather that my child is taught responsibility than taught dependence but there is a lot of "sign this and return to indicate that your child did the work" kind of stuff.

Lastly, I recall as a child having time in school to do work around projects, and more often than not I had no homework because that time was given. From what I can tell, that kind of time no longer exists (or it does but there is more work).

I also don't recall having homework at all until I was in grade 6. It starts now in grade 1 (every night was about 15 minutes).

Re:Calgary couple fight their children's school to stop home... by shpxnvz on Thursday November 19, 2009 @09:54AM (#950317)
Also irritating is that the onus is on the parents to ensure that things get done, I'd rather that my child is taught responsibility than taught dependence...

Err, isn't it the parents' responsibility to build responsibility in their children rather than the schools'?

Re:Calgary couple fight their children's school to stop home... by bmj on Thursday November 19, 2009 @10:00AM (#950329)
I'm not sure that the poster's point. When I was in grade school, the only thing my parents had to sign was my report card each quarter. It was my responsibility to do my homework, and my responsibility to shoulder the consequences if I didn't.
Re:Calgary couple fight their children's school to stop home... by shpxnvz on Thursday November 19, 2009 @11:51AM (#950537)
Not sure how I misunderstood. It sounded like he was irritated that it was his job to ensure his children completed their assignments by being forced to check and sign something, and would rather that they be taught, in school, to handle that responsibility themselves.

My point, probably poorly expressed, was that it's not realistic to expect the school to instill that sense of responsibility in the child, and that the "check and sign this" policy is really just a gentle encouragement to parents to take an active role in their education.

Re:Calgary couple fight their children's school to stop home... by shelfoo on Friday November 20, 2009 @03:11PM (#953286)
I understand what you're saying, and perhaps I came off as not wanting anything to do with my childrens education, which is definitely not what I meant.

I guess what I was getting at with the irritated part is that without my signature on the homework, it's deemed 'incorrect/incomplete'. This is teaching my children that they must rely on me for their own success. It's not that the school is not teaching responsibility (agreed that's my job), but that it's teaching dependence.

I also suspect that in many cases the work itself isn't looked at, a signature from me is looked for and that's it. If that's the case, it's a situation where the school is giving homework for the sake of giving homework, which I don't think is correct.

Re:Calgary couple fight their children's school to stop home... by jswinghammer on Thursday November 19, 2009 @09:13AM (#950246)
I'm curious to know if you sent your kids to preschool or just homeschooled your kids all along? I'm seriously considering homeschooling my children and I'm sort of curious what other people have done with the first schooling decision.
Re:Calgary couple fight their children's school to stop home... by bmj on Thursday November 19, 2009 @09:18AM (#950250)
Our older son went to "playschool" when he was three and part of four, and we've considered it for our younger son, who is turning four. We aren't terribly concerned about the "social" aspect of school, as our kids have no problems interacting with people (adults or kids their own age), and we are a part of a homeschool co-op.

We know several other homeschoolers that have done "normal" preschool for their kids, too. I don't think it's an either/or situation--in fact, it may give you some insight on how your kids learn best (we discovered that our son does really well when taught something one-on-one, but can often become frustrated in larger groups).

Re:Calgary couple fight their children's school to stop home... by tseabrooks on Thursday November 19, 2009 @08:09AM (#950156)
Maybe this is me being a pompous arrogant arse but I'd venture to say they by virtue of you posting here you are putting you are not part of the statistical average. Especially if you look at the survey that was conducted showing the wide disparity between the percentages of various personality types on Hacker News vs. the population at large...

Truth is: The vast majority of people don't think or behave like the people on this forum(?) do.

Edit: Just for the record nearly all of the software engineers I know scored in the 99th percentile on all of their standardized tests growing up. Obviously the merit of standardized tests can be argued - but I'm guessing you are smarter than msot people and just incredibly humble.

Re:Calgary couple fight their children's school to stop home... by electromagnetic on Thursday November 19, 2009 @11:23AM (#950484)
IMHO I don't disagree with homework. However in an education system that allows salaried teachers to reduce school hours without lowering their pay, and increase homework as a substitute is failing grossly. A child doing a 32 hour school week, should not be doing any more than 8 hours of homework per week. Anything over 44 hours for an adult (here in Canada at least) is considered overtime and cannot be forced upon an adult of legal age, so how in hell can it be forced on a minor without even parental consent?

I was regularly assigned over 16 hours of homework (2 hours a night, 6 hours over the weekend) after attending a 34 hour school week. That was 6 hours of mandatory work that I didn't consent to, and that was after several of my teachers stopped giving me homework (I understood math and science problems virtually in one go, by end of class I could be given a random equation made up on the spot by the teacher and get it right, so they quit giving me homework to save their own time).

It wasn't just the school year that was the problem. Once summer hit we'd be assigned 16-20 hour projects by virtually every teacher. Even on a full 12-month 44 hour per week standard, we were still doing far more work than an adult can legally be expected to do by an employer.

The local catholic school board to me, likely where any children I have will be attending (and where my wife and many of our friends attended) sets a maximum of 1 hour for all primary school children. Why this woman's children were receiving 4 hours a night is absurd and reeks of lazy and incompetent teaching. Sadly from my own experiences, I don't doubt it's true.

Re:Calgary couple fight their children's school to stop home... by Tichy on Thursday November 19, 2009 @04:27AM (#949980)
There are other things to learn besides the stuff they teach at school.
Re:Calgary couple fight their children's school to stop home... by ghshephard on Thursday November 19, 2009 @06:19AM (#950066)
Emphasis should be on the phrase "...for an eight year old."