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Re:Lawyers threaten researcher over key-cloning bug in high-... by brownbat on Tuesday May 05, 2015 @11:31PM (#9496460)
> Those who disagree, why?

They probably feel that the Nuremberg trials are a hyperbolic example here, and worry that line of argument brushes a little too close to Godwin's Law.

Upshot, we probably all agree with you that everyone has personal responsibility for their actions. There are still situations where we want attorneys to listen to their clients though.

Re:Lawyers threaten researcher over key-cloning bug in high-... by Lawtonfogle on Wednesday May 06, 2015 @10:44AM (#9498974)
Godwin's law is a overused to shut down legitimate topics. And while the point may be the most extreme, it is still a very valid point. If one wants to say it is different, one needs to articulate why.
Re:Lawyers threaten researcher over key-cloning bug in high-... by madez on Wednesday May 06, 2015 @11:00AM (#9499115)
Thank you for bringing sense into this discussion.

I wouldn't say extreme, but fundamental. I referenced the Nuremberg Principles because they are so fundamental and I genuinely don't know a better example.

Several people in the community misuse down-votes. They down-vote on-topic, constructive and serious discussions which disagree with their opinion instead of simply articulating their criticism.

Re:Lawyers threaten researcher over key-cloning bug in high-... by 0xdeadbeefbabe on Wednesday May 06, 2015 @12:49PM (#9499980)
Godwin said, "I wanted folks who glibly compared someone else to Hitler or to Nazis to think a bit harder about the Holocaust"[0]

I suppose because "Godwin's law" is in the dictionary now you are free to add meaning as you like, but I wouldn't be happy about this stackoverlow like meta trivial pursuit at the expense of logic if I were Godwin.

[0] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law

Re:Lawyers threaten researcher over key-cloning bug in high-... by qbrass on Wednesday May 06, 2015 @02:15PM (#9500666)
He understood memes and introduced species enough to introduce a meme as a predator to a different meme, but ignored that introduced species with no predators quickly become invasive themselves.

So if he's not happy, he's only got himself to blame.

Re:Lawyers threaten researcher over key-cloning bug in high-... by madez on Wednesday May 06, 2015 @02:22PM (#9500717)
But it has a predator: critical thought.
Re:Lawyers threaten researcher over key-cloning bug in high-... by madez on Wednesday May 06, 2015 @07:39AM (#9497862)
Do you have a better example where personal responsibility was officialy upheld?
Re:Lawyers threaten researcher over key-cloning bug in high-... by lotsofmangos on Wednesday May 06, 2015 @08:43AM (#9498166)
A story about a two year old learning about agency would be a better example, there are millions of better examples for this context.

The most extreme example of a thing you can find is not usually the ideal example to use for most contexts. Rather than clarifying things, if it dwarfs the context, it then appears automatically ridiculous even if the basic argument is sound.

Re:Lawyers threaten researcher over key-cloning bug in high-... by madez on Wednesday May 06, 2015 @09:41AM (#9498474)
> A story about a two year old learning about agency would be a better example,

This is not an example for official upholding of personal responsibility.

> there are millions of better examples for this context.

This is hand-waving. I used the Nuremberg trials specifically to not hand-wave.

Re:Lawyers threaten researcher over key-cloning bug in high-... by lotsofmangos on Wednesday May 06, 2015 @09:47AM (#9498517)
"This is hand-waving. I used the Nuremberg trials specifically to not hand-wave."

Now that is funny, though I suspect unintentionally, and in horrifically bad taste either way.

Re:Lawyers threaten researcher over key-cloning bug in high-... by madez on Wednesday May 06, 2015 @10:25AM (#9498825)
I think here is some kind of misunderstanding.

I did not intend to be funny nor do I see why it was bad taste.

My question for a better example was genuine.

Re:Lawyers threaten researcher over key-cloning bug in high-... by mryan on Wednesday May 06, 2015 @11:31AM (#9499403)
Presumably lotsofmangos is making a reference to the Nazi salute.
Re:Lawyers threaten researcher over key-cloning bug in high-... by madez on Wednesday May 06, 2015 @12:27PM (#9499812)
Ah, I see. Well, it wasn't meant like this.

It was meant as a pejorative label for him stating

    there are millions of better examples for this context
without providing one valid example.
Re:Lawyers threaten researcher over key-cloning bug in high-... by lotsofmangos on Wednesday May 06, 2015 @12:53PM (#9500016)
I provided a valid example. It was admittedly a bit of a rubbish example, but then it was intended to be. But nevertheless, a story about a two year old learning about agency, as in, concepts of personal choice and consequence of action, is an example much better suited to the context of whether lawyers should send out strongly worded cease and desist letters when their clients tell them to, than relying on the court response to the Nuremburg defense in the face of genocide.
Re:Lawyers threaten researcher over key-cloning bug in high-... by madez on Wednesday May 06, 2015 @01:53PM (#9500497)

    I provided a valid example.
No, you did not.

I asked for "a better example where personal responsibility was officially upheld". Your example was explaining a child agency, which _does not_ include officially upholding personal responsibility.

Furthermore, I did not draw any comparison between the Nuremberg Trials and the case in question, but used them only to substantiate my argument for personal responsibility. Reread what I wrote if you are doubting.

Don't assume everybody does cheap puns and invalidly makes up connections between what was said. If I mean it, I say so.

Re:Lawyers threaten researcher over key-cloning bug in high-... by lotsofmangos on Wednesday May 06, 2015 @02:18PM (#9500688)
I asked for "a better example where personal responsibility was officially upheld".

Add an adult to the story then. Hell, add a teacher, knock yourself out. For making the point of not merely doing as instructed though and having personal responsibility, this need for official confirmation in the metaphor seems awfully weird.

Don't assume everybody does cheap puns and invalidly makes up connections

I didn't, I said I thought you were probably being unintentionally funny.

Re:Lawyers threaten researcher over key-cloning bug in high-... by madez on Wednesday May 06, 2015 @03:17PM (#9501126)

    Add an adult to the story then. Hell, add a teacher, knock yourself out.
I don't know a better example. If I had one, I wouldn't have asked. In my experience people defend themselves by saying they were told to do it or that there are laws forcing them.

    For making the point of not merely doing as instructed though
    and having personal responsibility, this need for official
    confirmation in the metaphor seems awfully weird.
There are lot of things we might think that should be, but many are not officially recognized. Having my point officially recognized is essential for its substance.

It is not a metaphor.

However, I think we were just misunderstanding each other. My question was serious and genuine.

Re:Lawyers threaten researcher over key-cloning bug in high-... by lotsofmangos on Wednesday May 06, 2015 @12:09PM (#9499688)
It was admittedly the first thing that came to mind from a sentence about Nuremberg and handwaving.