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Re:The Gervais Principle II: Posturetalk, Powertalk, Babytal... by nazgulnarsil on Thursday November 12, 2009 @12:21PM (#938189)
I think a lot of engineering types are out in the cold on this one. what helped me was studying acting (the art of believably imitating social situations).

http://greenlightwiki.com/improv/Status

start reading Robin Hanson's blog Overcoming Bias, he's an economics professor who posts a lot about signaling.

Re:The Gervais Principle II: Posturetalk, Powertalk, Babytal... by vgr on Thursday November 12, 2009 @04:54PM (#938854)
I am an engineer, but I am inclined to agree with you. As an undergrad, I was the dramatics/theater secretary of my hostel (==dorm), and did enough directing/script writing to get a real sense of the medium (even though I quickly found out I had little talent on stage or backstage).

Theater/acting related metaphors and ideas are pretty central to the way I am developing the series... the next piece is shaping up to be even more theater-informed.

Overcoming Bias is a good reco -- I used to read it regularly, but (pot-kettle complaint here...:)) I couldn't keep up with the length of some of the stuff, especially by Yudkowsky. Hansen is thankfully briefer.

Venkat

Re:The Gervais Principle II: Posturetalk, Powertalk, Babytal... by angelbob on Thursday November 12, 2009 @11:27PM (#939361)
The article references the book "Impro". I agree -- it has a really fabulous chapter on status, and how to use it in interaction. While the book is focused on improvisational theater, the exercises they do will teach you a lot about how people use these same techniques in day-to-day life.
Re:The Gervais Principle II: Posturetalk, Powertalk, Babytal... by zackattack on Thursday November 12, 2009 @01:31PM (#938392)
That article is tremendously helpful because I don't have a natural intuitive grasp of status. Thank you.

One thing that confuses me is when it's strategic to act high status, and when it's strategic to act low status. For example, sometimes, when you need something from someone - do you want to raise their status, and make them like you? Or do you want to convey high status, so they will want to associate with you? Or should you try to juggle raising your status and then lowering it, in order to achieve the illusion of parity?

E.g. Selling to a customer, getting a job, getting help with something in the workplace. . .

Somebody has got to have written something about this. Please help.

Re:The Gervais Principle II: Posturetalk, Powertalk, Babytal... by nazgulnarsil on Thursday November 12, 2009 @01:35PM (#938405)
How to Win Friends and Influence People by Dale Carnegie.

the original. so lucid I doubt it will ever be dethroned as the best. hmm, can't find an online version right now even though I know multiple sites have a plain text version. anyone have a link?

a direct answer: I personally think it's better to act high status the vast majority of the time, only acting lower status when it is absolutely required. when I started doing this people's reaction to me immensely improved (night and day difference).

Re:The Gervais Principle II: Posturetalk, Powertalk, Babytal... by netcan on Thursday November 12, 2009 @08:24PM (#939153)
I recommend listening instead of reading it for those who sometimes find self betterment books hard to stomach.

One of the reasons this book is easier to digest then a lot of its modern equivalents is that because it is old. It's easier to seperate fad from truth. It evokes less troublesome emotional responses for the same reason that the Trojan War evokes less troublesome emotional responses then the war in Afghanistan. Listening seems to highlight that.

http://www.audible.com/adbl/site/entry/offers/partnerPromoti...

Re:The Gervais Principle II: Posturetalk, Powertalk, Babytal... by zackattack on Thursday November 12, 2009 @02:29PM (#938536)
Well, doesn't How to Win Friends and Influence People offer advice like sincere and lavish praise? That's low-status, unless coming from the position of an authority position (high-status).

Maybe I'll do some experiments.

Something else I am interested in is how social/contextual status subconsciously sabotages people in the context of sport or business.

Re:The Gervais Principle II: Posturetalk, Powertalk, Babytal... by pchristensen on Thursday November 12, 2009 @04:06PM (#938762)
(before I get started, I can't praise HTWFAIP enough - http://www.pchristensen.com/blog/articles/verifying-theories...)

It's not low status unless you overdo it. Everyone enjoys validation for what they do, and while some people get more praise than they want for some things they do ("Hey, Michael Jordan, great game!"), there are other parts of them that are starving. People are not monolithic, they're made of many facets.

One example from the book was of a guy who built theater seats trying to get a deal with a bigwig from Kodak. No one ever got to meet with Mr Bigwig for more than 5 minutes, and Mr. Theater had to wait months for his 5 min appt. When he went in, Bigwig was gruffly resistant to a sales pitch, but Theater first complimented his fine wood paneled office. That disarmed Bigwig and got him talking about how he used to really care about carpentry and craftsmanship but has been taken over too much by his work. Two hours of conversation, no mention of the theater, and next week Bigwig ordered the chairs for his new theater fro Mr Theater. Complimenting Bigwig's business acumen or wealth would have had no (or probably negative) effect, but there was another part of him that was starved for recognition.

Enough rambling, go read the book! You can find a pdf online if you poke around.

Re:The Gervais Principle II: Posturetalk, Powertalk, Babytal... by dhs on Friday November 13, 2009 @01:56AM (#939533)
Found the PDF. Thanks for giving that clue :-)
Re:The Gervais Principle II: Posturetalk, Powertalk, Babytal... by nazgulnarsil on Thursday November 12, 2009 @04:15PM (#938776)
agree with what pchristensen said. a lot of people read HTWFAIP and the next week they're smarmily complimenting everyone. when this doesn't work they assume the book is bull shit and go about their lives. this isn't how it works. the compliments have to be genuine. as mentioned in the anecdote, the compliment is just a way to segue from business into genuine engagement with the other person. this would never work if the compliment wasn't about something of substance.

anyhoo. the main thing I took from the book in combination with everything I've learned about behaviorism and cognitive bias leads me to believe that the underlying trick is to bolster people's internal narratives. everyone constructs a narrative of their life in which they're the hero, validating this narrative will win you loyalty like you wouldn't believe as deep down, it's a major part of what everyone wants.