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Re:How Google Hires by timv on Wednesday April 08, 2015 @03:24AM (#9339192)
I'm curious how often you had people voluntarily drop out of the process without completing the work sample, and whether that frequency would change if you didn't have a phone screen. (I take it from your questions that you never actually stopped doing phone screens).

If my first contact with a company is them asking me to put in hours of my time, when it costs them "almost nothing to run" (your words) then I'd be inclined to pass.

The company I work for has a work sample exercise, and we intentionally place it after a phone screen and first interview, because we feel it is (and appears) more fair to the candidates.

From our point of view, we'd love to put it up front, as it is the best source of information we get, but if it caused us to lose good candidates before we even started (and we believe it would) that would be a show-stopper.

Re:How Google Hires by jerematasno on Monday April 20, 2015 @03:06PM (#9410165)
Most of our candidates drop out before the work sample. On the other hand, almost none of our candidates are qualified to work for us when they initially apply.

We make it really clear that there will be work samples before people even apply. I think the real question would be "how many qualified applicants don't bother applying because of the work sample," which is a question we can't answer. Given the paucity of unemployed qualified infosec folks, we're comfortable with the tradeoff.

Re:How Google Hires by Decade on Wednesday April 08, 2015 @04:58AM (#9339460)
I’m curious exactly how many times a candidate gets to apply to Matasano.

Thomas describes the Matasano process as costing “almost nothing,” but that includes running a couple exploit training websites and sending an 852-page book to applicants. Which I’m not inclined to go through immediately, because I need money right now.

Do I have to do the microcorruption.com and the cryptopals.com and The Web Application Hackers Handbook before even trying the technical screens and challenges? Or should I try seeing if my existing web application security best practices and rusty MIPS assembly experience are enough to get to where I have enough breathing room to do these exercises?

Re:How Google Hires by jjarmoc on Thursday April 09, 2015 @05:01PM (#9351004)
> I’m curious exactly how many times a candidate gets to apply to Matasano.

Undefined. Personally, I applied twice, ended up coming to work here the second time through.

> Do I have to do the microcorruption.com and the cryptopals.com and The Web Application Hackers Handbook before even trying the technical screens and challenges?

Nope. But they might help, and you may want to anyhow; they're fun :)

Re:How Google Hires by tptacek on Wednesday April 08, 2015 @08:58AM (#9340402)
No! You absolutely do not need to do Microcorruption or Cryptopals.
Re:How Google Hires by vonmoltke on Wednesday April 08, 2015 @10:16AM (#9340888)
On the other hand, if you made something you could give to anyone who applied and was little to no work for you how many good candidates would you pick up that you wouldn't have given a phone screen to?
Re:How Google Hires by timv on Wednesday April 08, 2015 @09:40PM (#9345346)
I think that varies quite a lot based on company profile and role-type.

We phone screen anyone who has a resume that's vaguely relevant. If you're applying for a software engineering role and have never done any development, then we'll reject straight away, but that almost never happens.

We simply don't have a high enough profile to receive a flood of applications that we need to filter before we phone screen.

And for a software engineering role, evaluating the work test takes as much as the phone screen (sometimes more). We're not simply checking whether you can produce the right output for FizzBuzz (checking that could be automated), we're looking at your choice of algorithm, design trade-offs, unit testing approach, etc - things that require a human to be involved.

Different companies and different roles will have different time investments.

A CTF style task can be evaluated more simply (at least on first pass) - did you capture the flag.

And if you are looking for a few amazing candidates form amongst a mass of poor ones, then you can afford to optimise your process so that you test every candidate at as low a cost as possible, even if that causes some candidates to self-select out.