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Re:India students caught 'cheating' in exams in Bihar by eitally on Friday March 20, 2015 @08:32AM (#9237244)
The problem is that if you have 1.4 million people to compete against in your state and you know the authorities don't really care if you cheat, then you absolutely have an incentive to cheat. This is a political & cultural problem, but is absolutely solvable.

In my graduate program (~60 people) at a top tier US engineering school, about 10% were Chinese, 80% Indian, and 10% American. The Indians did all their work as a big team, and it didn't matter whether it was homework, quizzes, projects, tests, or even their theses. They didn't consider it cheating at all, even though it absolutely was (except the homework, where partnership was usually encouraged). Everyone else knew they were cheating, but in the absence of professors willing to confront the problem, what is an honest student to do? Do you maintain your integrity at the risk of lower grades, or do you cheat, too, and ensure a high GPA?

Re:India students caught 'cheating' in exams in Bihar by Anonymous9723 on Friday March 20, 2015 @09:36AM (#9237571)
I decided to post this anonymously. I am a professor at a major CS program in the united states. And we have a very serious cheating problem with indian students. It's clearly cultural. We also see cheating at a fairly high rate among the chinese and students from a handful of middle eastern countries, but the indian students are way out in front: it drives our indian faculty nuts.

It seems that indian students have instilled in them a drive to help pull one another out of the abyss. This is probably a noble, and perhaps critical, characteristic for survival in a third world country. But for exams and particularly projects in US institutions, it translates directly into a high degree of unethical plagiarism and cheating. It damages the reputation of the department and the diplomas of our non-cheating students. We do not know what to do about it.

I used to hold up the American students as the example to follow, since for decades they have had instilled in them basic notions about the ethics of cheating. But that's changing too: the millennials cheat at a much, much higher rate than Americans did before. Helicopter parenting? Changes in school culture? I don't know, but we have a big, big problem there as well.

* Edit. Just to make it clear for those who would like to say "well, the Americans do it too now". While it's true the millennials cheat a lot more than Americans did in the past, it's still a very small fraction of the rate we're seeing in the indian students.

Re:India students caught 'cheating' in exams in Bihar by keerthiko on Friday March 20, 2015 @10:27AM (#9237875)
I was a (top 1%) student all the way through high school in the Indian education system, and our oppressive educational environment makes it far too stressful to perform within our parents' expectations. Even the top students collaborated with each other and "cheated" to ease the stress on ourselves. We also felt bad for weaker students who were struggling with material and being left further and further behind, without being given any time to actually understand the material, having to spend all the time memorizing stuff they didn't get so they could spew it out on exams, and would help them out too.

Tired of that system, I went on to attend Olin College of Engineering [0] in the US, the complete opposite end of the spectrum. I wrote a grand total of 1 time-constrained, closed-text written final exam in my 4 years there. Not a student, myself included, ever "cheated" at Olin, even though I had developed a habit of taking whatever means necessary to score higher on exams.

I realized that the reason why cheating didn't make sense at Olin was because everything I could have wanted to do to score higher was already allowed. I think the real solution is to build team-oriented finals and exams, with peer evaluation taking a sizeable chunk of the grade distribution, such that there is no longer an action that can be considered "cheating". In the real world, whether it's academia or industry or research, you are allowed to do anything that doesn't harm someone else to reach the answer you seek. I don't see why collaboration between students should be discouraged. Plagiarism is a different issue, and that can be addressed differently.

[0] http://www.olin.edu

Re:India students caught 'cheating' in exams in Bihar by eep_opp on Friday March 20, 2015 @10:27AM (#9237879)
I don't get it. Call them out. I hated dealing with the cheating at my school. I hated that their GPA got them the same considerations as mine.

The worst part was the lazy faculty that did nothing. I built a bit of a reputation around publically reprimanding students in class when they acted like brats. This was not my job and it alienated me from much of the of the student body.

Unfortunately I had to do it because my class would have never moved forward. So I guess it's not just my school? Professors have lost control all over and simple things like cheating have some kind of grey area?

FYI: Mostly Americans at my school.

Re:India students caught 'cheating' in exams in Bihar by andyjohnson0 on Friday March 20, 2015 @11:47AM (#9238391)
I don't know how it works in the US, but in the UK foreign students pay much higher fees than domestic students and are a significant source of revenue for universities. There may be pressure on academic staff not to jeopardise this arrangement by calling attention to cheating.

There are significant problems with cheating in UK universities too, particularly (but not only) with international students [1].

[1] http://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/4...

Re:India students caught 'cheating' in exams in Bihar by NTDF9 on Friday March 20, 2015 @01:59PM (#9239389)
The reason Indian students collaborate so much is because the way Indian education system works, hustling students survive better. Students who can read, share and gather information with peers always tend to do better than lone geniuses.

Also, the population ensures that there aren't enough resources for everyone. So, everyone learns to share. A lab project? Share!! You want to do a survey? Form a group and do it. Want computing resources? Share it with others in that time slot. Participating in competitions? All of them are team based competitions.

This is a cultural difference. Nothing else. Also, it's not like all the Indian kids are homogeneously helping each other. They all have their own cliques and many students don't want to share their solutions with other students (Indian or not). Many want to find a better solution.

The solution is simple (something the CS reps in my school implemented with great success). Make homework and (some) tests incredibly hard and encourage team work.

Some of the programming projects we had were so complex that the class had shared forums where we would solve problems right under the nose of the TAs and the prof with full visibility. So, while the code would be individually written, problem solving in the abstract can be a team effort.

An example of how to make them harder would be to deliberately introduce bugs in a codebase that you deployed for a homework. This teaches them how to find solutions and debug.

Sure, some students will chill until the last moment and try to gather answers from friends. But, most students who worked their ass off would never share their solutions (mostly to get themselves up the bell curve). A lot of students will try to make their solutions better by improving on the shared common answer but never revealing it to anyone but the grader.

For exams, we had open book, open laptop, full internet access tests. In those tests, all students would log into chat box to discuss answers. But the questions were tricky and needed speed to solve. So, being on the chat just made sure students are wasting time. The only people who could finish those tests were students who knew what they were doing.

I know this is not ideal in the US. But its a strategy (if used sparingly) that works really well. To be honest, it makes students be super prepared and study real hard so that they can complete tests faster, yet know that they can rely on their friends to get them some info if they happen to forget it.

Re:India students caught 'cheating' in exams in Bihar by hahla on Friday March 20, 2015 @09:12AM (#9237419)
I too noticed this in my graduate program. However the majority 70% were Chinese, and they did the same exact thing you say. They would come into the lecture hall early and plan out their seating arrangements for each and every exam. It was clearly noticeable they were cheating. I cant speak to Indian students as there was only one in the entire graduate program.
Re:India students caught 'cheating' in exams in Bihar by rayiner on Friday March 20, 2015 @09:26AM (#9237513)
Cheating in U.S. higher education is really a moral crisis, and the amount of accomodation for cheaters is shocking to me. I was bored one day and decided to read through the opinions of my school's honor board proceedings. You wouldn't believe the shit people got away with. One student plagerized most of his final paper from one of the professor's books. He said in his country that was a sign of respect! And he got away with that excuse!
Re:India students caught 'cheating' in exams in Bihar by kamaal on Friday March 20, 2015 @11:02AM (#9238105)
This can happen. In India, you have this tradition of 'notes sharing'. Basically the course instructor circulates around lecture notes(Which is basically a highly trimmed version of the text book), all students do is mug up the whole thing and write it down in exams.

The person who gets it 100% right generally scores the highest. If you are some who does it a little differently by thinking and working your way through the course, you can be silently penalized for trying to be smarter than everyone else.

Re:India students caught 'cheating' in exams in Bihar by koyote on Friday March 20, 2015 @09:40AM (#9237603)
I always found cheating to be much easier at US universities than back in the UK. Although maybe this was only my personal experience.

In the US you could often sit anywhere you liked in exams and have anything on you (cheat sheets were allowed for many exams, which I thought was an interesting concept to say the least).

In the UK, at least at my university, you had to leave all of your belongings by the side of the room and were only allowed a pen (and whatever else you needed for writing). Even your pockets had to be empty. It was also in a massive room with empty desks around you and a massive amount of space between every student as well as a handful of supervisors walking around making sure nothing fishy is going on. It definitely felt like a much more serious event than any exam I ever took in the US.

Re:India students caught 'cheating' in exams in Bihar by buyx on Friday March 20, 2015 @09:36AM (#9237570)
In South Africa some universities have introduced cameras into exam halls, but cheating is probably rampant at those that haven't. I've been in an exam where people in the next row (teachers no less, doing what seemed like an easy exam) were blatantly cheating. First world notions of "honour" and "integrity" don't gel well with third world aspirations.

Oh and South African Indian students (in the country for generations, and affluent relative to the rest of the population) are amongst the biggest cheats. A BCom (commerce) degree held by an Indian graduate from the the University of KwaZulu-Natal (UKZN) is something to be viewed with great suspicion.

Re:India students caught 'cheating' in exams in Bihar by JustSomeNobody on Friday March 20, 2015 @09:18AM (#9237457)
I'm not clear on how what the Indians are doing affects the GPA of the Chinese or Americans in your example. Do they blow the curve, maybe?

Also, Americans tend to put individual before group. I wonder if your example isn't so much cheating as a difference in culture.

Re:India students caught 'cheating' in exams in Bihar by qzcx on Friday March 20, 2015 @09:53AM (#9237685)
Yeah, they would blow the curve. Most university require professors to have a certain average GPA for a given class. If all of the cheaters pass with flying colors due to cheating, then the people who would have looked good otherwise, now seem average and get a C instead of the A they deserve.

Cheaters, whether American or Indian or Chinese, ruin the educational experience of college. Universities really should take it much more serious than they currently do.

Re:India students caught 'cheating' in exams in Bihar by rayiner on Friday March 20, 2015 @09:30AM (#9237533)
It undermines the moral fabric of the society. It's not a coincidence that in India (or Bangladesh, where My family is from), you have to bribe someone to get your phone hooked up.
Re:India students caught 'cheating' in exams in Bihar by JustSomeNobody on Friday March 20, 2015 @09:38AM (#9237584)
Ok, but I still am not clear about how this would affect the GPA of students who don't cheat.
Re:India students caught 'cheating' in exams in Bihar by rhino369 on Friday March 20, 2015 @12:38PM (#9238691)
Either because it is graded on a curve or because graduates are judged based on GPA. If you earned a fair and square 3.5 and a bunch of people cheated their way to a 3.7 you have a devalued 3.5.
Re:India students caught 'cheating' in exams in Bihar by Iftheshoefits on Friday March 20, 2015 @09:34AM (#9237555)
It is cheating. The rules are quite clear, and these groups break those rules in a way that gives them an immediate and direct advantage over students who don't break the rules. The rules themselves may be subject to debate, but that these people engage in cheating really isn't.

They don't blow any curves necessarily but they do appear to be smarter or more able, and that impacts everything from teaching assignments to thesis committee solicitation.

Re:India students caught 'cheating' in exams in Bihar by ern on Friday March 20, 2015 @10:02AM (#9237750)
In the case of Microsoft Exams (at least when I took them a few years ago), I had the sense that there was an "arms race". Questions were made more difficult and obscure than they needed to be, in order to drive pass rates down...when the real issue was braindumps and more blatant forms of cheating in some parts of the world. Which creates more demand for braindumps.

I wouldn't be surprised if college instructors start doing this as well-make exams tougher to compensate for cheating, rather than dealing with cheating head-on.

Re:India students caught 'cheating' in exams in Bihar by Naagii on Friday March 20, 2015 @03:19PM (#9240079)
Well, in my case I never considered cheating as an excuse to anything. May be, I was lucky to born in a small country with 3 million people. I left my grades are to be an indication of how and where I spent studying. My grades are lower than the most other guys who explicitly cared about their grades. Even so, no one hasn't given me a shit about my low grades within 3 years of my career. May be because of in the end all what matters is that you do what you suppose to do good enough.