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Re:The Ethics of Unpaid Labor and the OSS Community (2013) by dreamdu5t on Wednesday March 18, 2015 @02:44PM (#9227765)
I stopped contributing OSS lately after seeing how many startups use some of my modules. Why should I work for free to help others profit? Yet if I use restrictive licenses people just avoid the software altogether. If my open-source software is successful I just end up being exploited financially.

EDIT: Downvotes? I guess it's socially unacceptable to not want to contribute to OSS because someone else will just make money off your work.

Re:The Ethics of Unpaid Labor and the OSS Community (2013) by mhurron on Wednesday March 18, 2015 @03:01PM (#9227908)
Releasing software that others are legally allowed to use, and then them using it is being 'exploited financially.' Interesting.
Re:The Ethics of Unpaid Labor and the OSS Community (2013) by dreamdu5t on Wednesday March 18, 2015 @03:19PM (#9228021)
Because you want to split hairs over terminology, I will rephrase: I did not want to contribute to OSS anymore because watching other people make money off of my unpaid work made me feel undervalued and resentful. It also made me realize I didn't have to do any OSS contribution to get good jobs and spend unpaid time coding stuff for other people to use.

There I didn't use the word "exploited".. are you happy now?

Re:The Ethics of Unpaid Labor and the OSS Community (2013) by mhurron on Wednesday March 18, 2015 @04:10PM (#9228334)
I'm not splitting hairs. You made work freely made available for others to use, they used it, this somehow exploited you.

> I did not want to contribute to OSS anymore because watching other people make money off of my unpaid work made me feel undervalued and resentful.

Again, what did you think was going to happen to work you freely made available for people to use as they saw fit. They used it as they saw fit.

You are complaining that people did what you expressly allowed them to do. It's probably best that you stopped contributing, you clearly didn't understand what you were doing.

Re:The Ethics of Unpaid Labor and the OSS Community (2013) by cwyers on Wednesday March 18, 2015 @04:40PM (#9228540)
Think of it this way.

Community-developed software kinda runs on a stone soup model -- everyone brings something to the pot, everyone gets something back OUT of the pot, everyone gets something that is better than the sum of the parts contributed to it. This can be a good thing. It doesn't stop you from being miffed if you figure out that there's a restaurant in town that's coming, dropping off a bit of mirepoix, hauling off a cauldron's worth and selling it the next town over.

And in the macro sense, there are a lot of companies who have figured out how to use the communities that have developed around open source and free software as a low cost to free source of labor. And important infrastructure products like OpenSSL end up being used EVERYWHERE but starved for resources because everyone can just freeride off the work of a few people until something like Heartbleed comes along and exposes the costs of it. And there's probably at least a few products that are in the same boat as OpenSSL and we just won't know what those are until the next Heartbleed. And it makes it really, really hard to solve these problems when we can't even talk about them openly without people being personally attacked for discussing it.

Re:The Ethics of Unpaid Labor and the OSS Community (2013) by mhurron on Wednesday March 18, 2015 @05:05PM (#9228688)
> Community-developed software kinda runs on a stone soup model

That's a nice idea, and many people do operate that way, but in no way is it required, enforced or the norm.

Most people use OSS without ever contributing back. They find what solves a problem they have and they use it. They can do this because the explicit license allows them to do it. You might have had the intention of 'share and share alike' but the explicit permissions say otherwise.

> It doesn't stop you from being miffed if you figure out that there's a restaurant in town that's coming, dropping off a bit of mirepoix, hauling off a cauldron's worth and selling it the next town over.

It makes your anger over it occurring irrational.

Re:The Ethics of Unpaid Labor and the OSS Community (2013) by liveoneggs on Wednesday March 18, 2015 @03:04PM (#9227919)
Why did you do it in the first place?

Here's why you might consider contributing to OSS even though others use it to make money:

If you have contributed to a successful project it's a major leg up in getting hired by someone using that project

If you use that product in your own work, then you are paying that benefit forward and can expect some (additional) returns in the future

If you learn something new/interesting that is outside of your normal work-a-day stuff

Re:The Ethics of Unpaid Labor and the OSS Community (2013) by dreamdu5t on Wednesday March 18, 2015 @03:12PM (#9227976)
You can get good jobs without having an active OSS history. I'm not asking for financial compensation. I was stating why I contribute much less now than I used to.
Re:The Ethics of Unpaid Labor and the OSS Community (2013) by Crito on Wednesday March 18, 2015 @03:24PM (#9228058)
You don't need to put your software under a GNU approved FOSS license in order to put it up on github and get all the benefits of listing it on your resume. You can easily put your code up there with a non-commercial non-free open source license, and still list it on your resume.

Seriously, companies typically give zero shits about which software license you personally prefer, they just want to be able to look over what you have accomplished.

Re:The Ethics of Unpaid Labor and the OSS Community (2013) by frik on Wednesday March 18, 2015 @03:26PM (#9228066)
You could use the (A)(L)GPL license. With AGPLv3 even SaaS is covered. But it's a tradeoff as companies will prefer MIT/BSD over GPL, if there are alternatives.
Re:The Ethics of Unpaid Labor and the OSS Community (2013) by pc86 on Wednesday March 18, 2015 @02:47PM (#9227787)
Why not use a license that merely prohibits commercial use? And presumably the startups in question are actually adding some value to your code beyond just implementing it with a wrapper. It's not like they are building a business around your piece of code (or are they?)
Re:The Ethics of Unpaid Labor and the OSS Community (2013) by agj on Wednesday March 18, 2015 @03:40PM (#9228141)
Similarly, if your modules are that popular and causing enough of a support burden to result in resentment, maybe this is a signal of an opportunity?

If your code is popular, why not offer support to, or seek out sponsorship from, the companies that are using your modules/applications? A revenue-focused startup is probably a bad resource to tap for this. But getting a few companies to spread out a few hundred dollars each from their engineering/marketing budgets isn't completely unlikely.

Otherwise, you can always recite the age-old mantra to cleansing open source entitlement resentment: "Patches welcome."

Re:The Ethics of Unpaid Labor and the OSS Community (2013) by bandrami on Thursday March 19, 2015 @03:59AM (#9230717)
Because that makes your software not just proprietary but _hugely_ proprietary (remember, even GPL software has absolutely no conditions on _use_, deliberately).

Come to think of it, it's not even clear you could effectively write such a license for software (the analogous artistic license is generally about performance/broadcast, which doesn't have an equivalent in software). Once the user has received the code from the licensor, legally the situation is out of the licensor's hands _except for the issue of redistribution_, which is what the GPL restricts.

Re:The Ethics of Unpaid Labor and the OSS Community (2013) by vezzy-fnord on Wednesday March 18, 2015 @02:52PM (#9227822)
Such a license would mean your software is proprietary, and thus dissuade not just businesses but a lot of end users as well, e.g. from not being featured in distro repositories (or thrown away in some third-party repo) due to not meeting licensing guidelines.
Re:The Ethics of Unpaid Labor and the OSS Community (2013) by dreamdu5t on Wednesday March 18, 2015 @02:52PM (#9227826)
Because people actively avoid OSS with licenses like that, always opting for projects that have MIT/BSD type licenses.
Re:The Ethics of Unpaid Labor and the OSS Community (2013) by pc86 on Wednesday March 18, 2015 @03:08PM (#9227943)
I would imagine people actively avoid them if they plan on charging for something.

I'm honestly not sure what you wanted. You contributed code to something, and people used it. Some of those happened to make money on code that included yours (I'm sure the impact yours had on their bottom line is debatable). Did you expect financial compensation? Did you just hope for whatever reason that nobody would make any money off any code that you wrote? If you didn't want people to "avoid" your software, you wanted them to use it, right?

Re:The Ethics of Unpaid Labor and the OSS Community (2013) by dreamdu5t on Wednesday March 18, 2015 @03:14PM (#9227988)
I didn't want anything. I was stating why I mostly stopped contributing: Other people were making money off of my work without me being compensated. OSS is a vehicle for companies to exploit unpaid labor. The hacker community just hates to hear that.
Re:The Ethics of Unpaid Labor and the OSS Community (2013) by vidarh on Wednesday March 18, 2015 @04:01PM (#9228275)
I contribute to OSS because I have no reasons not to, and often benefit:

I occasionally write stuff for my own use that might be of use to others. There's no downside to me if I release it, and the occasional upside.

Sometimes I need to apply a fix to some OSS project. Contributing helps me avoid having to maintain a fork.

Sometimes I write something at work that may be useful for others and convince my employers to let me open source it, and as a result I am also able to reuse the same software at home or in future jobs.

None of these have deprived me of income. Some of the work I was paid for. Some of it has indirectly led to income.

I find your expression of resentment curious. Their use of your software did not deprive you of anything other than in your own mind.

Re:The Ethics of Unpaid Labor and the OSS Community (2013) by pc86 on Wednesday March 18, 2015 @03:23PM (#9228048)
> OSS is a vehicle for companies to exploit unpaid labor.

OSS is freely given, sometimes by people who are paid to do exactly that. The term "unpaid labor" has a specific connotation akin to slavery or indentured servitude. The two are not comparable.

Complaining that someone somewhere makes money (at best, indirectly) from an OSS contribution is the same as complaining that Good Will resold my donation at a profit.

Re:The Ethics of Unpaid Labor and the OSS Community (2013) by forgottenpass on Wednesday March 18, 2015 @03:33PM (#9228116)
The term "unpaid labor" has a specific connotation akin to slavery or indentured servitude. The two are not comparable.

Is this a legal term of art or common knowledge definition? It was unknown to me so I've tried some googling and am turning up primarily volunteer work and unpaid internships under that title. I know wikipedia isn't the greatest source, but over there "unpaid work" is a class of things including both slavery and working at a family business or coop.

Re:The Ethics of Unpaid Labor and the OSS Community (2013) by dreamdu5t on Wednesday March 18, 2015 @03:28PM (#9228080)
Yes, I should have been more clear: The idea that contributing to OSS is A Good Thing is dogma. It is a vehicle for companies to profit from work they don't have to pay for.

It has nothing to do with whatever political axe you have to grind.

Re:The Ethics of Unpaid Labor and the OSS Community (2013) by treve on Wednesday March 18, 2015 @03:36PM (#9228126)
I think 'The Hacker Community' knows that others benefiting from code you freely provide is one of the extremely obvious side effects of open sourcing.

It sounds a bit like you're buying a round of beers for everyone in the bar, and then you're upset people didn't compensate you for it.

Re:The Ethics of Unpaid Labor and the OSS Community (2013) by yaauie on Wednesday March 18, 2015 @03:51PM (#9228205)
Or more likely that you're buying a round of beers for everyone in the bar, and are just frankly exhausted by the continuing flood of entitled recipients complaining about the quality and/or usefulness of the beer.
Re:The Ethics of Unpaid Labor and the OSS Community (2013) by treve on Wednesday March 18, 2015 @04:04PM (#9228298)
That's an entirely different problem in itself.
Re:The Ethics of Unpaid Labor and the OSS Community (2013) by ndj7 on Wednesday March 18, 2015 @03:28PM (#9228084)
OSS also empowers individuals to create great things - despite limited financial resources.
Re:The Ethics of Unpaid Labor and the OSS Community (2013) by vezzy-fnord on Wednesday March 18, 2015 @02:54PM (#9227846)
False premise: Software with such a license by definition is not OSS.
Re:The Ethics of Unpaid Labor and the OSS Community (2013) by sobkas on Wednesday March 18, 2015 @03:10PM (#9227962)
>Yet if I use restrictive licenses people just avoid the software altogether. Do you mean gpl/agpl? If yes, why do you care if leaches don't use your code?