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Re:Study: Teen Cannabis Users Have Poor Long-Term Memory in ... by jMyles on Friday March 13, 2015 @04:03PM (#9199654)
> Young adults who abused cannabis as teens performed about 18 percent worse on long-term memory tests than young adults who never abused cannabis.

Wonderful. Another study with no basis for distinguishing causality from correlation.

I bet you can randomly select a subgroup of 18-percent poorer performers and find that they have all sorts of things in common, from diet to exercise to presence or absence of parents - as well as bizarre factors like who was born on a Tuesday.

There are probably dozens of markers that both correlate with these kinds of results and also plausibly suggest an explanation.

> “It is possible that the abnormal brain structures reveal a pre-existing vulnerability to marijuana abuse,” Smith said. “But evidence that the longer the participants were abusing marijuana, the greater the differences in hippocampus shape suggests marijuana may be the cause.”

What?! No it doesn't. It suggests quite the opposite: that people with greater abnormality tend to use marijuana longer.

I suspect that, now that medical cannabis is widely available and somewhat widely used in the treatment of childhood maladies, we may begin to see, in the next decade or so, results based on much sounder science simply because of the availability of higher quality sample groups.

Re:Study: Teen Cannabis Users Have Poor Long-Term Memory in ... by readme on Friday March 13, 2015 @07:30PM (#9200756)
One would assume that the reader of such a study would already know the flaw of correlation vs causation. It is taught when we learn how to interpret the results of experiments.

This study however does not stand by itself. There will be more, if there aren't already, and all they are doing is backing up the conventional wisdom about the effects of marijuana.

It definitely makes you forget. I grew up with two parents who smoked it, DAILY. They remembered nothing. Seriously.

Re:Study: Teen Cannabis Users Have Poor Long-Term Memory in ... by tjradcliffe on Friday March 13, 2015 @08:47PM (#9201057)
It's also extremely suspect that a completely irrelevant measure ("hypocampus shape") was selected for this correlation rather than memory function.

In the absence of a randomized trial, the dose-response relationship is one of the most important tools available for teasing out causality. If you can't show that increased dose strongly correlates with increased response, you likely are looking at population variables, not drug/lifestyle effects.

It turns out that almost everything that gets people's hands wringing from fatty foods to chemicals with complicated names have almost flat dose-response curves. The ones that stand out as having strong dose-response curves are alcohol and especially smoking, which meets all of the causal criteria you want to see in a correlative relationship: http://www.skepticalraptor.com/skepticalraptorblog.php/corre...

Re:Study: Teen Cannabis Users Have Poor Long-Term Memory in ... by xalloc on Friday March 13, 2015 @07:35PM (#9200768)
When people don't like the result of a study, the very existence of "causality" all of sudden turns into a point of contention.
Re:Study: Teen Cannabis Users Have Poor Long-Term Memory in ... by jMyles on Friday March 13, 2015 @08:09PM (#9200882)
It's true that I don't like the result of this study. My experience is that plenty of healthy, smart, motivated, effective people consume cannabis quite regularly. I have been smoking marijuana quite regularly since I was about 19 years old (which is 13 years ago now) and of course I don't like to think of myself as cognitively impaired.

However, I think that studies like this are particularly vulnerable to this critique of methodology. Any time you assess the performance of a large group and then divide that group into subgroups, you are going to find trends of varying levels of statistical significance.

It is incredibly easy to do. http://www.tylervigen.com/

That is why, in every scope-and-methods class in every college across the country, the various methods for ascertaining causality are demonstrated and taught.

Reading only the linked article and not the study itself, I so far have the impression that none of these were seriously considered - presumably on the basis of ethical treatment of humans subjects. You can't just take a group of people with a particular set of desirable control features (perhaps, in this case, a typically shaped hippocampus) and force-feed them cannabis smoke for three years.

On the other hand, it's just as easy to read this study as meaning that people who performed poorly on the relatively specific requirements of this study seemed to prefer to smoke marijuana. If this study were about serious science, the conclusion might be the utterly uninteresting sky-is-blue headline, "absent-minded people likely to smoke weed."

Re:Study: Teen Cannabis Users Have Poor Long-Term Memory in ... by anonbanker on Monday March 16, 2015 @01:51PM (#9213025)
user created an account to make these comments, then promptly made more comments on other anti-drug threads only.

user has made no other comments thus far.

Re:Study: Teen Cannabis Users Have Poor Long-Term Memory in ... by anonbanker on Friday March 13, 2015 @05:48PM (#9200309)
at the time of this reply, this was the furthest-buried response, downvoted to very faint grey. Disgusting.