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Re:Best way to handle interviewer asking me out on a date af... by archagon on Tuesday March 10, 2015 @12:59PM (#9178837)
OK, I was willing to at least entertain your comment until that last sentence there. As a bona-fide MAN on HN, the anecdote reads as extremely slimy to me. And it's pretty clear that women have to deal with this kind of BS constantly.
Re:Best way to handle interviewer asking me out on a date af... by kelukelugames on Tuesday March 10, 2015 @01:22PM (#9179034)
His phrasing definitely can be improved. But a lot of people in the reddit thread are incorrect. There is a difference between what is illegal and what is slimy. What the interviewer did is inappropriate but there is no proof that discrimination occurred.

I think it's unethical to hit on co-workers, direct reports and especially interviewees, but there are two people on my team who met their spouses during an interview at previous companies.

Edit: I don't understand the downvotes. The people asking her to lawyer up do not understand employment law. Unethical behavior doesn't automatically mean it's illegal. The definition for discrimination is pretty strict. Unless you can prove the interviewer has a pattern of rejecting female candidates and then asking them for dates then there is no case here.

The other point I wanted to make is there are people who date their interviewers. Does that mean it's not sketchy? No. But the success stories serve as encouragement for this kind of behavior.

Re:Best way to handle interviewer asking me out on a date af... by frozenport on Tuesday March 10, 2015 @01:04PM (#9178884)
Obvious troll is obvious
Re:Best way to handle interviewer asking me out on a date af... by mikeash on Tuesday March 10, 2015 @01:02PM (#9178854)
Real men do not abuse a position of power to pressure women into accepting a date.
Re:Best way to handle interviewer asking me out on a date af... by borski on Tuesday March 10, 2015 @01:04PM (#9178875)
Not trying to cause a stir, but where does it say he pressured her? I read it as "he asked me out on a date," not "he told me if I didn't go on a date with him he wouldn't hire me and he'd kill my firstborn."

She had already not gotten the job. Not saying this is ok, but it doesn't sound like much pressure was applied.

Re:Best way to handle interviewer asking me out on a date af... by justin66 on Tuesday March 10, 2015 @01:20PM (#9179021)
> She had already not gotten the job.

That's part of the point. If it were okay to ask a job candidate out after an interview, the incentive for an unscrupulous interviewer who encounters an attractive candidate is to scuttle the interview so he can ask the candidate out later on.

That's just part of why this behavior is so highly objectionable.

Re:Best way to handle interviewer asking me out on a date af... by borski on Wednesday March 11, 2015 @05:52AM (#9183328)
So, hypothetically, if we were to believe in fate and love at first sight (humor me here), your suggestion is that an interviewer that has passed on a candidate through a rigorous interview process with multiple interviewers where everyone said no for the same (or different) valid reasons... Simply accept the fact that he will never be able to date his "one and only?" That he won't ever even be able to see "what could have been?" That seems awfully unhuman; to deny yourself and another human the possibility of a potentially blissful relationship, solely because "we once met in a professional setting" seems, frankly, dumb.

Now, if he were the sole interviewer, or if he cut the interview short, or if he asked her DURING the interview, this would be a different conversation. But we don't know that.

Not every situation is the same, and it should not /always/ be "totally unacceptable" to ask someone out on a date. If they say no, and you pressure them, that's a different story.

Sometime you have to apply reason to a situation and understand the facts before casting judgment and making blanket statements. I have no reason to say that what this person did is acceptable; for all I know he WAS the only interviewer, and he did pressure her. But that's just it - we /don't/ know, and you cannot cast judgment to say that this is unacceptable as a result, without knowing more about the intricacies of the situation.

Generalizations like this are how we get into trouble in the first place.

Re:Best way to handle interviewer asking me out on a date af... by mikeash on Wednesday March 11, 2015 @10:42AM (#9184293)
Hypothetically, if we were to believe in fate and love at first sight, the odds of any given person encountering his soulmate in a world of 7+ billion people are so minuscule as to be ignorable.

More than the power dynamic, I think the stronger argument here is privacy. If you submit your information to a company to apply for a job, it's with the assumption that this information will only be used to evaluate and possibly hire you. Imagine if you submitted your resume somewhere, and they started sending you advertisements in the mail. You'd be outraged! Well, this is the same sort of thing. She gave this company her contact info so they could evaluate and possibly hire her, and here's a company insider using that information to contact her for a completely unrelated purpose. Spam, with unpleasant overtones of power.

Re:Best way to handle interviewer asking me out on a date af... by justin66 on Wednesday March 11, 2015 @01:43PM (#9185392)
I'll repeat:

If it were okay to ask a job candidate out after an interview, the incentive for an unscrupulous interviewer who encounters an attractive candidate is to scuttle the interview so he can ask the candidate out later on.

You haven't engaged that statement at all so I wonder why you responded to me.

Re:Best way to handle interviewer asking me out on a date af... by borski on Friday March 13, 2015 @01:22PM (#9198346)
My point was that if everyone else is positive on the interviewee, it should be very hard for the single interviewer to 'scuttle' the interview. And if everyone else is negative on the candidate, this is irrelevant.
Re:Best way to handle interviewer asking me out on a date af... by beenpoor on Tuesday March 10, 2015 @01:09PM (#9178924)
Yes. I too feel the same.
Re:Best way to handle interviewer asking me out on a date af... by mikeash on Tuesday March 10, 2015 @01:10PM (#9178928)
It's implicit in the very fact of asking in that situation. Your response, and the neighboring one from ddoolin, is the equivalent of "I wasn't threatening her, I just always hold a knife in my hand like that."

The proper thing to do here if you really wanted to ask her out on a date is not to do it. There's plenty of other women out there you can meet in a more appropriate setting. There is no acceptable reason to turn a job interview into a date request.

Re:Best way to handle interviewer asking me out on a date af... by woof on Tuesday March 10, 2015 @01:28PM (#9179081)
>I wasn't threatening her, I just always hold a knife in my hand like that

He threw away the knife when he told her the was looking for someone with more experience.

Re:Best way to handle interviewer asking me out on a date af... by mikeash on Tuesday March 10, 2015 @01:47PM (#9179255)
That presumes that the outcome of an interview is set in stone the moment it's decided. That is not how things actually work.
Re:Best way to handle interviewer asking me out on a date af... by baddox on Tuesday March 10, 2015 @01:11PM (#9178929)
Given that she was already turned down for the job, I see this more as an absurd lack of professional propriety than an abuse of power. It would also be extremely inappropriate for a candidate to ask an interviewer out on a date.

Of course, if the job rejection is in any way related to the subsequent date-asking (or anything other than her alleged lack of experience), then the situation is different (and even more messed up).

Re:Best way to handle interviewer asking me out on a date af... by mikeash on Tuesday March 10, 2015 @01:18PM (#9178999)
There's always an implied "maybe this rejection could be altered" even if the interviewer intends no such thing.
Re:Best way to handle interviewer asking me out on a date af... by chris11 on Tuesday March 10, 2015 @01:33PM (#9179128)
Dating is less complicated when it does not involve coworkers so there is also the possibility he could have rejected her so he could ask her out.
Re:Best way to handle interviewer asking me out on a date af... by baddox on Tuesday March 10, 2015 @01:38PM (#9179187)
Can you explain that claim, and is that claim in any way falsifiable?
Re:Best way to handle interviewer asking me out on a date af... by mikeash on Tuesday March 10, 2015 @01:46PM (#9179253)
Explain it? Sure. There's always subtexts in human interactions. Pressure doesn't have to be explicit. When a policeman tells you to pull over, there's an implied "or you'll be arrested" that we all understand even though he never comes out and says so. When your crappy boss asks you to come work overtime on the weekend without any additional pay, there's an implied "or I'll make your life at this company difficult, or maybe just fire you" that he usually doesn't need to state.

Your crappy boss might not mean it that way. He might be asking with absolutely pure intent, with the idea that you'll say no if you don't want to come in, and you'd work extra because you like it, or believe in the company, or whatever. But it doesn't matter, the implication is still there, because of the power he holds.

Now, you get rejected from an interview. Shortly after, the interviewer asks you for a favor. There is an implied "if you do this for me, I might reconsider the rejection." Again, he might not mean it, but it's still there, because he has that power. Or at least you have good reason to think he has that power.

Is this claim falsifiable? Beats me. Ask a sociologist if you want to get scientific about it.

Re:Best way to handle interviewer asking me out on a date af... by baddox on Tuesday March 10, 2015 @02:23PM (#9179557)
> When a policeman tells you to pull over, there's an implied "or you'll be arrested" that we all understand even though he never comes out and says so. When your crappy boss asks you to come work overtime on the weekend without any additional pay, there's an implied "or I'll make your life at this company difficult, or maybe just fire you" that he usually doesn't need to state.

Both are those claims are simple to explain. Policemen clearly do arrest people if they don't pull over, and bosses clearly do penalize or fire people for not following orders (even unreasonable orders). And intention doesn't really come into play for either of those examples, because it's clear that both policemen and bosses intend to be issuing threats.

You haven't given any similar explanation for why asking someone on a date after interviewing and rejecting them carries the same implication. (For clarity, note that I don't approve of doing so, but for a different reason.)

Re:Best way to handle interviewer asking me out on a date af... by mikeash on Tuesday March 10, 2015 @02:38PM (#9179682)
You're saying the other examples are clear because people actually do these things, but the date example isn't clear because men don't retaliate against women who refuse a request for a date?

I'm not sure what I can tell you besides, yes, yes they do, all the time.

Re:Best way to handle interviewer asking me out on a date af... by baddox on Tuesday March 10, 2015 @02:48PM (#9179750)
> You're saying the other examples are clear because people actually do these things, but the date example isn't clear because men don't retaliate against women who refuse a request for a date?

I'm not saying that men don't regularly do that. I'm saying I have absolutely zero evidence of men doing that. It might happen, but right now I am much more sure that policemen arrest people for refusing to pull over nearly 100% of the time than I am that male employers retaliate against women employees/candidates who refuse a date.

Re:Best way to handle interviewer asking me out on a date af... by mikeash on Tuesday March 10, 2015 @05:04PM (#9180601)
Again, I'm not sure what to tell you besides yes, this happens, all the time. Maybe ask some of the women in your life how careful they have to be when turning down men who ask them out. Maybe google "fired for rejecting a date" (but beware, there's a lot of noise in the results). Women (and men) absolutely suffer retaliation in the workplace for rejecting advances.
Re:Best way to handle interviewer asking me out on a date af... by baddox on Tuesday March 10, 2015 @07:50PM (#9181595)
My point is that the claim that policemen routinely arrest people who refuse to pull over is far less uncertain or controversial than the claim that male employers routinely ask women on dates and make their employment contingent on their response.
Re:Best way to handle interviewer asking me out on a date af... by mikeash on Tuesday March 10, 2015 @08:40PM (#9181808)
I don't see anything uncertain or controversial about it. You appear to disagree, but I have a hard time seeing why. I gave you a couple of places where you might find the stuff I'm talking about.
Re:Best way to handle interviewer asking me out on a date af... by ddoolin on Tuesday March 10, 2015 @01:04PM (#9178883)
Your opening is a logical fallacy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman).

Anyway, she was already told she wouldn't be hired there. The OP also doesn't mention that it was an exchange of favors (i.e. Go on a date with me and I'll get you this job).

Re:Best way to handle interviewer asking me out on a date af... by baddox on Tuesday March 10, 2015 @01:13PM (#9178958)
You've just misused the no true scotsman fallacy. The no true scotsman fallacy is when someone attempts to apply an unreasonable/unlikely interpretation to a previous claim when presented with a counterexample to the reasonable interpretation of that claim. It is not simply any claim of the form "all/no members of group X have property Y."
Re:Best way to handle interviewer asking me out on a date af... by ddoolin on Tuesday March 10, 2015 @01:18PM (#9178996)
I see your point -- thanks for the explanation (and neighboring comment from mike).
Re:Best way to handle interviewer asking me out on a date af... by mikeash on Tuesday March 10, 2015 @01:13PM (#9178948)
A logical fallacy assumes a logical argument. I was using "real men" as a rhetorical device, echoing OP's use of the term "MAN."

Edit: these downvotes are fascinating. I'm amazed at how many people are apparently upset in the opposite direction from what I'd expect. Are you pissed off that it's inappropriate for an interviewer to ask an interviewee on a date? Are you just pissed off that it's being called out? Do you just disagree with the language being used to call it out? Do tell.

Re:Best way to handle interviewer asking me out on a date af... by venomsnake on Tuesday March 10, 2015 @01:19PM (#9179005)
How can he abuse position of power if he asked her out after he turned her down for the job? He does not have a shred of power over her. If it was before he told her she is unsuitable- it is different case.
Re:Best way to handle interviewer asking me out on a date af... by mikeash on Tuesday March 10, 2015 @01:23PM (#9179053)
Sure he does. He could change his recommendation after the fact. Even if he couldn't, and even if he intends no such thing, she has no way to know that, and he should be aware enough of the power dynamic to understand how that impacts his request. It sounds like he was aware, and did it anyway.
Re:Best way to handle interviewer asking me out on a date af... by borski on Wednesday March 11, 2015 @06:00AM (#9183348)
In that case, would this have been better had he started it with a "Hey, so I have no method of changing anything at this point with regards to the interview, and wouldn't even do it if I could. But I was wondering..."

Would that have been easier for you to swallow? Because the fact that we, as a people, are so cynical as to assume the worst is, to me, incredibly fucking sad. :(

Re:Best way to handle interviewer asking me out on a date af... by mikeash on Wednesday March 11, 2015 @10:49AM (#9184341)
That would be better, but still not great.

Note that it has nothing to do with assuming the worst. It's all about potential. For an extreme example, imagine a stranger almost fell off a bridge, and you're pulling them up. If you let go, they will fall to their death.

Is this an appropriate moment to ask them out on a date?

It's obvious to me that the answer is "no." You literally hold the power of life and death over this person. They have no idea what your intentions are. You've put them in a really tough spot and it's completely inappropriate.

Now, this has nothing do with assuming that you'd actually drop this person to their death if they rejected you. It's merely that there is the possibility. You might. Even if the odds are a million to one, put yourself in that person's shoes: would you take that risk? This is a total stranger. You don't know what they're like. It's possible they're a nutcase who freaks out whenever they're rejected. (I'm sure you've met people who do this.) Chances are good that they're a completely normal person... except, of course, that a normal person wouldn't be asking the question in the first place.

Now, the actual interview thing obviously is not on the same scale. There's no life-or-death situation (probably... stalking ending in murder is a real thing, and this guy knows where she lives) and it's fairly safe to say "no." But the potential is still there. We're not assuming the worst, merely acknowledging that the worst is possible, and that alone is enough.

Re:Best way to handle interviewer asking me out on a date af... by x0ra on Tuesday March 10, 2015 @01:34PM (#9179142)
Maybe he just liked her...
Re:Best way to handle interviewer asking me out on a date af... by mikeash on Tuesday March 10, 2015 @02:03PM (#9179400)
I like lots of women, that doesn't mean it's appropriate to ask all of them on a date.