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Re:The new MacBook by nostrademons on Monday March 09, 2015 @07:22PM (#9174805)
I'm a big fan of the Finder of System 7. It seemed to hit the sweet spot where you could do just about everything you needed to easily (it had collapsible tree views, folders, computed folder sizes, drag & drop, copy & paste, labels, etc.), but it didn't try to hide things from you or restrict what you could do, it didn't get too fancy and guess at your common tasks, it actually showed your filesystem instead of Apple's prescribed guess at what your filesystem should do, and it was still simple enough that you could wrap your head around exactly how it worked.

There seems to be this phenomenom where good products seems to get better right up until they get mainstream adoption, and then they steadily get worse. It's like up till then you have room to improve, and then suddenly you've hit the pinnacle of product design in your category, but rather than hold it there, you have to make random changes so your employees have something to do and don't quit.

(To be fair, the one company that's tried the "great, let's make a great product, kill off the competition, and then hold it there and reassign all the people" was Microsoft with IE6, and that worked fine up until Firefox and Chrome came around and then completely screwed them over.)

Re:The new MacBook by tambourine_man on Tuesday March 10, 2015 @12:38AM (#9176058)
I'm also a huge fan of the spatial Finder concept, but memory has a way of rendering the past in better lighting.

System 7 (or 8, 9 for that matter), didn't have copy & paste. You could copy file names into SimpleText, for example, but you couldn't use it to manage files. Also, clicking anywhere outside a window would deselect every file you had carefully chosen, so dragging and dropping was a Zen exercise.

And there were invisible files, plenty actually. Like, the desktop for instance? An invisible folder. Or every single custom icon? An invisible "Icon\r" resource fork file. We inherited the invisible attribute in HFS+ from those days.

We did have a much simpler file system structure, and I miss that as well. I welcomed the column view, but the spatial Finder is indeed missed, though it still lives in a sense in iOS's springboard.

Re:The new MacBook by oneeyedpigeon on Tuesday March 10, 2015 @10:32AM (#9177886)
OSX still doesn't have cut & paste for files, which is utterly ridiculous IMO. Keyboard support for Finder is all-round lacking.
Re:The new MacBook by ashearer on Tuesday March 10, 2015 @12:32PM (#9178640)
The latest software has several deficiencies, but this isn't one of them.

Copy, then hold down the Option key while pasting, by keyboard or menu. In the Edit menu, "Paste Item" will change to "Move Item Here".

Even though it's not as discoverable as it should be, this is a well-reasoned UI move on Apple's part. Even on Windows, cut & paste has different semantics for files than for text, and this solution sidesteps the weird "cut-in-progress" mode and inability to paste again.

Re:The new MacBook by oneeyedpigeon on Tuesday March 10, 2015 @04:53PM (#9180546)
I stand informed. Thank you very much.
Re:The new MacBook by UVB-76 on Tuesday March 10, 2015 @10:55AM (#9178008)
Hold Cmd when dragging and dropping to move files (i.e. 'Cut and paste', which is a daft name for it)

If the folder you're moving to isn't readily available just Cmd+N to open a new window, etc.

Re:The new MacBook by hipertracker on Wednesday March 11, 2015 @08:03PM (#9188339)
With XtraFinder it has cut & paste, and much more http://www.trankynam.com/xtrafinder/
Re:The new MacBook by Doctor_Fegg on Monday March 09, 2015 @07:51PM (#9174941)
A thousand times this. I loved the "spatial Finder" of System 7. It was such a 1:1 mapping onto the filesystem that even my DOS-using friends realised that this wasn't a GUI abstraction over something cruder, this was the Mac and this was how it worked.

23 years later and I still can't consistently switch off "browser view" in the OS X Finder. Cmd-option-T works for windows on my local disks, but then I'll insert a USB stick or similar, and they appear as standard in browser view. Ah well.

Re:The new MacBook by sigzero on Monday March 09, 2015 @09:50PM (#9175512)
Re:The new MacBook by rmckayfleming on Monday March 09, 2015 @10:13PM (#9175591)
It's not quite the same. The old Mac OS had a one to one mapping of open windows to directories in the filesystem. As I recall, you couldn't open two windows of the same directory, it would just bring the existing one to focus. Hence the term spatial, opening a folder wouldn't create duplicate windows, there is only ever one in existence.

EDIT: Article talking about it back during OS X 10.0 release http://archive.arstechnica.com/reviews/01q2/macos-x-final/ma...

Re:The new MacBook by wingerlang on Monday March 09, 2015 @10:28PM (#9175641)
Why is that better in your opinion?
Re:The new MacBook by nostrademons on Monday March 09, 2015 @10:59PM (#9175748)
(Not OP, but answering with MHO)

Couple reasons:

1. It preserves the metaphor of your desktop being a place where you can directly manipulate your files and folders. On early Mac versions, the Finder "was" your files, it wasn't just "a browser for" your files. That metaphorical consistency is very important for building a good UI, but products these days have gotten so complex that most of them lose it.

2. It prevents you from getting into a situation where you've opened up a bunch of Finder windows, navigated through them, and then find that they're all pointing at your home directory again. Ironically, the reason Steve Jobs gave for the new MacOS X finder was that the old one popped open a bunch of windows that you'd have to manually "garbage collect", but I feel like I'm garbage-collecting a lot more on MacOS X than on System 7. The reason is because on System 7, the Finder window I had open was a natural extension of my current task and I just closed it when I was done with the task, while in MacOS X, I just usually have one or two windows open and then periodically feel like they're a distraction that's getting in my way.

Re:The new MacBook by wingerlang on Monday March 09, 2015 @11:49PM (#9175910)
> the Finder "was" your files, it wasn't just "a browser for" your files

I don't see the difference. When I open Finder I see _my files_, I don't even think about the Finder as a browser.

Re:The new MacBook by rmckayfleming on Tuesday March 10, 2015 @12:01AM (#9175951)
Another benefit of the mapping is that the window's properties such as height, width, display style (list or grid) remained the same even after closing, they are properties of the directory, not of a specific file browser instance.
Re:The new MacBook by zaroth on Tuesday March 10, 2015 @04:00AM (#9176569)
But that requires opening each subfolder in its own window, right? I can say ever since Win95 I've been setting that stupid Folder Options > 'Open each folder in the same window' setting because I could never stand having the next level down appear someone random on the screen and just clutter up the entire desktop.
Re:The new MacBook by iSnow on Tuesday March 10, 2015 @04:55AM (#9176706)
Usually, I'd navigate to a folder and then have the content in list view (which was really useful, like windows' "detailed" view, only better) and then drill down to the subfolders via the collapsible tree.

So, yeah I miss the spatial finder too, but after 10+ years, I have gotten over it. People blow this out of proportion.

Re:The new MacBook by rmckayfleming on Tuesday March 10, 2015 @01:40PM (#9179201)
Yeah, having said all this I do really like Miller columns for navigation.
Re:The new MacBook by jakobegger on Tuesday March 10, 2015 @03:36AM (#9176522)
But you can have two windows open showing the same file. Which one is the real file? In the spatial Finder, a file could exist only once.
Re:The new MacBook by wingerlang on Tuesday March 10, 2015 @05:44AM (#9176830)
If I delete it in one of the windows it will be gone in the second one, I really don't see the issue/difference/problem here.
Re:The new MacBook by welly on Tuesday March 10, 2015 @09:02AM (#9177468)
They're both the real file. The file does exist only once. Are you saying in the spatial Finder you can't have duplicate views of a particular directory open?

Or are you referring to the files themselves? So if you open up somephoto.jpg in Preview, you couldn't open it up a second time?

I'm struggling to understand you here.

Re:The new MacBook by joshuapants on Tuesday March 10, 2015 @10:07AM (#9177757)
The behavior you're describing is the behavior of a browser. The parent post was talking about maintaining the desktop metaphor; my actual desk has one drawer with pens and sticky notes in it. I can't open another drawer that also has the exact same pens and sticky notes in it.

I'm not necessarily siding with the parent post, but I think the point was fairly clear.

Re:The new MacBook by welly on Wednesday March 11, 2015 @05:33AM (#9183272)
Now I've seen the video below, I understand the point. It's been a long, long time since I used earlier versions of MacOS and I was never a regular Mac user back then. I'm not sure if that was a better or less convenient method of browsing files. I can see the benefits of both Finders to be honest.
Re:The new MacBook by hartator on Tuesday March 10, 2015 @03:05PM (#9179873)
Re:The new MacBook by unfamiliar on Tuesday March 10, 2015 @06:19AM (#9176933)
Sorry, but this doesn't really answer the question for me.

As far as I can tell, the current Finder has all of the things you list as desirable features.

I don't understand what is confusing about the filesystem as it is presented. It is exactly as it appears on disk, with some system folders hidden. Which can be unhidden easily. That's it.

>it didn't get too fancy and guess at your common tasks

I have no idea what this means.

>it was still simple enough that you could wrap your head around exactly how it worked

What one earth, _specifically_, is confusing about the new Finder?

All of the complaints I hear about it are so incredibly vague, like the ones above.

Re:The new MacBook by TheOtherHobbes on Tuesday March 10, 2015 @09:29AM (#9177574)
The fact that you have to install XtraFinder to get Finger - sorry, Finder - to do something basic like auto-size columns doesn't say much for Apple's diligence.

There is a clear and obvious problem with the quality of Apple's desktop software. Someone in charge is making very bad decisions about the competence of Apple users and their requirements.

The software has always been questionable - not least iTunes, which is a horrible example of how not to make a clean and elegant UI.

But lately it's been getting worse. The cosmetics are - possibly - improving. But usability and features are suffering.

Re:The new MacBook by vitd on Tuesday March 10, 2015 @02:19PM (#9179518)
If you're finding your system is unstable, it's probably due to using XtraFinder. That hack does various unsavory things that can cause stability issues.
Re:The new MacBook by welly on Tuesday March 10, 2015 @08:58AM (#9177447)
> it didn't get too fancy and guess at your common tasks

When does the current Finder try to guess your common tasks? Sure, by default it shows all the files in your home directory but this can be turned off easy as pie.

I'm not really sure what your problem with Finder is. The defaults are there for those who have little/no experience of OS X but all of these can be easily overridden if you've got the more than the very basics of OS X skills.

Like one of the commenters below, I'm finding you're being rather vague in what your problem is with it.