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Re:EA Shuts Down ‘SimCity’ and ‘The Sims’ Developer Maxis by lmkg on Wednesday March 04, 2015 @09:51PM (#9148951)
As a strategy, it's better than being profitable: it's predictable. The forecasts for the upcoming financial quarters are much more likely to be accurate when you only work with known IP.

The CEO is more beholden to analysts and stockholders than to customers. He has more to lose by failing expectations than he has to gain by exceeding expectations. Therefore, EA adopts a strategy that minimizes variance rather than maximizing profit.

But yes, it's profitable enough. Games and studios generally have more name-recognition than publishers. EA can take existing name-recognition on a series and generate large revenue from the first bad game they turn out. They launch a large marketing campaign, and by pushing pre-orders they can get more people to spend money on a game before they have an opportunity to find out what the product is that they're actually buying. At this point it's practically a science, and the market is only starting to push back (the latest Assassin's Creed may be doing a number on pre-orders).

Re:EA Shuts Down ‘SimCity’ and ‘The Sims’ Developer Maxis by rwallace on Thursday March 05, 2015 @01:35AM (#9149573)
The way I figure it, when value is being knowingly and unnecessarily destroyed, someone somewhere in the chain is being irrational. Given that EA is a public company, the obvious candidate for that somewhere is Wall Street. Your analysis seems to confirm that.

But the stock market is supposed to be hyper efficient nowadays such that it's practically impossible to outperform it even for the experts, let alone for random punters on the Internet.

What's the resolution to this paradox? Not a rhetorical question; I'm actually curious.

Re:EA Shuts Down ‘SimCity’ and ‘The Sims’ Developer Maxis by p23 on Thursday March 05, 2015 @09:44AM (#9150906)
The problem is the stock market is somewhat disconnected from reality.

I need to elaborate this further because now it just seems to be some anti-capitalist snark (which I do not want it to be).

The way stocks were supposed to work is that you buy a part of a company keep it and make money by getting a part of their profits every year (called dividend). Todays problem is that we want to make more money, faster (which is not "wrong" intrinsically as some people might think, but it does not work with the "traditional" stock model). The reason it does not work is that it may take some time for a company to be profitable and even then they may want to keep some of their profits to invest in research etc. which keeps dividends small (sometimes even 0). The new way one tries to make money is to buy a stock while hoping to be able to sell it to someone else for more money in the future (nothing wrong about that either). The real problem is that this price is based on supply and demand/perceived value which might differ significantly from the actual value (worth of the company's physical assets, paid dividends, ...) - it is easier to see these differences on more tangible things like luxury watches, art, etc., which are nowhere priced for their physical value (a frame and some paint - does not seem to be worth much ...) but they are there for stocks, too.

Now to the "hyper efficient"-part: yes, that's true, the market is hyper efficient, as in it is not that easy to get money out, because that would mean that someone else leaves it on the table, but everything still happens in the "perceived value" point of view, in which you would have to compete, too, to make money with stocks.

The dilemma in which CEOs find themselves is that not all actions that are good for the company itself are good for the perceived value/stock price, at least not when you are forced to do "short-term thinking" (the CEO keeping his job, the trader making money now).

Re:EA Shuts Down ‘SimCity’ and ‘The Sims’ Developer Maxis by kasey_junk on Thursday March 05, 2015 @07:00AM (#9150186)
I know that Wall Street is the boogey man for the HN crowd but how in the world can Wall Street be the villain in this story?

The Sims was only completed because EA was able to prop up the studio while it was underdevelopment. They were able to do that because A) they are good at selling software and B) they were a large public company.

Since then the studio has had a couple of huge flops (Spore and SimCity online) as well as a few enjoyable but disappointing from a sales perspective releases. In an industry built on the blockbuster model, I'd say its surprising they've lasted this long. They have because they have been spending other peoples money. So if there was an inefficiency here, it was that the studio got too much leeway, not that it was shutdown too soon.

There is no paradox, because you started with a completely flawed conjecture.

Re:EA Shuts Down ‘SimCity’ and ‘The Sims’ Developer Maxis by marcosdumay on Thursday March 05, 2015 @07:53AM (#9150385)
> how in the world can Wall Street be the villain in this story?

Two replies up, you'll find your answer there, as you probably jumped over it.

Re:EA Shuts Down ‘SimCity’ and ‘The Sims’ Developer Maxis by kasey_junk on Thursday March 05, 2015 @08:40AM (#9150646)
No, I read the whole thread. I'm just having trouble understanding how a studio having failed at a basic business reality of their market, and thus being shutdown, has Wall Street to blame.

Wall Street, even as the completely generalized abstraction, doesn't have anything to do with this, other than a big video game publisher used some money generated there, to back a studio that has been unsuccessful at their job. If it had been a US governmental bailout or kickstarter that the financing came from, would not have changed that.

Re:EA Shuts Down ‘SimCity’ and ‘The Sims’ Developer Maxis by freehunter on Thursday March 05, 2015 @09:44AM (#9150903)
The idea is that they were set up for failure by the relentless push to drive higher profit margins. This approach is incompatible with long-term growth, as there are only so many people who will fall victim to the idea of buying a worse game than last year's edition yet still buy more and more expansions. EA pushes for day one profits seemingly without concern as to profits over the lifetime of the product. As soon as the product is unprofitable, they shut it down.

Again, this comes from the idea that they need to make their profits look better and better because their stockholders demand it, which is sometimes at odds with what the players are looking for.

Do you think Maxis failed on its own, or is there the possibility that EA milked it dry and left it to die? If the latter, why would they do that? Not because it's good for the company long-term, but because it makes their bottom line look good just before annual profit reports are coming out. Think about it: SimCity was rushed out to meet a deadline of the end of EA's fiscal year, which happens on March 31st. SimCity was released March 7th, 2013. What's today's date?

Re:EA Shuts Down ‘SimCity’ and ‘The Sims’ Developer Maxis by kasey_junk on Thursday March 05, 2015 @10:33AM (#9151276)
Maxis has been owned by EA for 17 or 18 years no? As part of the ownership by the public company EA, the studio was able to release and have sequels for one of the best selling games of all time. Further, said game was distinctive in its business model in comparison to other games released at the time (it being very much about after day one profits). That is, at least on the surface, evidence that being owned by EA does not preclude long term stewardship of a game/studio.

As far as the stockholders go, I can assure you that A) stock holders have no ability to influence the release schedule of a video game or B) care how profits are generated, only that they are. There is at least a passing argument that the massively successful franchise of the studio would not have been possible without those stockholders, and the studio certainly did not turn down the money when they were acquired.

Whether EA mismanaged Maxis specifically or their management is in general too fixated on short term profits is not the issue. "Wall Street", whatever that is, does not demand that and would more happily not be involved in those decisions. So is it possible that EA is mismanaging their studios in a misguided attempt to cook their books? Maybe, but if so that has been true for Maxis for going on 2 decades, 1 of which was hugely successful.

You can blame "Wall Street" all you want, but it seems a simpler explanation that in a blockbuster driven market, Maxis failed to deliver blockbusters. This isn't surprising in the least given most software projects fail and even more so with games. I find it surprising that Maxis lasted as long as it did quite frankly. An independent studio would probably not have survived Spore, and I think Maxis did largely because they were backed by "Wall Street".

Re:EA Shuts Down ‘SimCity’ and ‘The Sims’ Developer Maxis by freehunter on Thursday March 05, 2015 @12:10PM (#9152074)
Can we stop pretending that "Wall Street" is a completely non-thinking entity (/concept/idea/etc). The reason people talk about "Wall Street" is because we're talking about public companies, who are beholden to stockholders. "Wall Street" is the generic concept of stockholders. And the one thing stockholders as a generic concept ("Wall Street") was is profit growth. Because shrinking profits leads to lower stock price. It doesn't matter that you were profitable, if you weren't more profitable than last year, the generic concept of stockholders ("Wall Street") will, in a generic fashion, lose faith in your company. And if your stockholders lose faith in your company, they vote out your board of directors and replace them with people who will bring growing profits. It's not always the case (Amazon is a major exception), but in general, it holds true.

If you still don't think Wall Street has even an indirect say in what games get published when and at what quality, then I don't see a point in continuing this discussion. But I'll leave on the point of SpaceX not wanting to go public until they make it to Mars, because Elon doesn't believe that stockholders will let him take the risk of sending humans to another planet. Or, taking a step back from Wall Street and just talking investors, the idea from this very community that any exit for a startup is good and is favorable for your investors even if it leaves your customers high and dry. Or how about when Steve Jobs was pushed out of Apple because he wasn't making enough money? Apple raced to the bottom and lost, hard, in the pursuit of maximizing profit.

I'm not trashing the idea of Wall Street or of investors. This is EA's fault. But saying that investors don't influence a company's products is insane. Of course they do, to the fullest extent that the company will let them. Again, if you don't believe EA is completely controlled by their investors, take a look at the timing of the end of their fiscal year, the rushed release of SimCity, and the announcement of Maxis being shut down. That's not coincidence.

Re:EA Shuts Down ‘SimCity’ and ‘The Sims’ Developer Maxis by tempestn on Thursday March 05, 2015 @02:01AM (#9149618)
Sounds like the people buying games from EA are the ones being irrational in that description.
Re:EA Shuts Down ‘SimCity’ and ‘The Sims’ Developer Maxis by thaumasiotes on Thursday March 05, 2015 @08:00AM (#9150424)
> The way I figure it, when value is being knowingly and unnecessarily destroyed, someone somewhere in the chain is being irrational.

Well, the model I see people using to describe EA basically amounts to buying studios with good long-term revenue prospects (known brands that, if consistently executed at a slightly below-average level, should maintain decent sales because the fans know what they're getting every time), and deciding to extract all of that future revenue all at once, by hyping up the latest incarnation of the series to extreme degrees while not bothering to execute at all. More sales now, less work now, no sales later.

If you want to stand by describing this as irrational, I wouldn't say the obvious candidate is EA shareholders. I'd say the obvious candidate is the studios who can't manage their brand well enough that it's worth more than the EA strip-mining approach. If you think that the long-term revenue stream has more "inherent worth", the studios are the ones squandering it.

(postscript -- I'm pretty sure I accidentally downvoted you when selecting a quote from your comment. I wish I could undo that.)

Re:EA Shuts Down ‘SimCity’ and ‘The Sims’ Developer Maxis by blumkvist on Thursday March 05, 2015 @03:47AM (#9149804)
>But the stock market is supposed to be hyper efficient nowadays such that it's practically impossible to outperform it even for the experts

That's not true at all. Maybe in commodities, or foreign exchange or indexing, where algos can trade solely based on prices and public information it is true. But definitely not in individual stock picking. Domain knowledge is king here.

Re:EA Shuts Down ‘SimCity’ and ‘The Sims’ Developer Maxis by kasey_junk on Thursday March 05, 2015 @07:04AM (#9150191)
I'm not an efficient market hypothesis proponent in the least, but nearly every study, simulation, etc does in fact show that it is nearly impossible to beat the market via stock picking.

Also as an aside, commodities and foreign exchange are places where it is explicitly allowed to have non-public information...

Re:EA Shuts Down ‘SimCity’ and ‘The Sims’ Developer Maxis by blumkvist on Thursday March 05, 2015 @12:35PM (#9152302)
The average retail investor does not have, nor seeks domain knowledge. He's 21-black type of guy. Of course indexing will beat him.
Re:EA Shuts Down ‘SimCity’ and ‘The Sims’ Developer Maxis by m_mueller on Wednesday March 04, 2015 @10:33PM (#9149083)
This is pretty much how a deadly virus works, right? Infect a particular game brand (cell) by buying (infecting) it, generate enough new copies of the virus (selling the game), then destroy it and release the virus onto the next cells. If the analogy is correct, the game market will either die, find a cure and eject EA or EA adapts and finds a way to coexist such as not to kill the host cells anymore.
Re:EA Shuts Down ‘SimCity’ and ‘The Sims’ Developer Maxis by pkinsky on Wednesday March 04, 2015 @11:45PM (#9149299)
Not really: in this case the games sold by an infected game studio aren't copies of the original entity that go on to infect other game studios. They're more of a waste product. EA consumes game studios for sustenance and excretes a steady stream of sub-par sequels as it slowly digests its prey.
Re:EA Shuts Down ‘SimCity’ and ‘The Sims’ Developer Maxis by m_mueller on Wednesday March 04, 2015 @11:56PM (#9149321)
Apparently I haven't been clear enough, so let me rephrase: What DNA is to a virus, money is to EA. Selling games is how they get their money, which is then used to infect more games and destroying them all in the process. Well that's at least how my analogy was supposed to work.
Re:EA Shuts Down ‘SimCity’ and ‘The Sims’ Developer Maxis by pkinsky on Thursday March 05, 2015 @01:02AM (#9149495)
I understood you, but your analogy doesn't work. Viruses are replicators, they infect cells to spawn new generations. EA is a monolithic entity that consumes studios to sustain itself, all without creating a single copy of itself. Money is food, not DNA.
Re:EA Shuts Down ‘SimCity’ and ‘The Sims’ Developer Maxis by warfangle on Thursday March 05, 2015 @09:08AM (#9150793)
So cancer, then.
Re:EA Shuts Down ‘SimCity’ and ‘The Sims’ Developer Maxis by m_mueller on Friday March 06, 2015 @08:54AM (#9156969)
I like how it all just went worse and worse for EA - from virus to a predator shitting out bad games to a cancer of gaming.
Re:EA Shuts Down ‘SimCity’ and ‘The Sims’ Developer Maxis by warfangle on Friday March 06, 2015 @01:22PM (#9158556)
To be honest, the virus might actually be more apt, if you change the kind of virus.

Take HIV for example: it attacks the immune system of the host, but is fairly difficult to transmit and relies on insufficient protection for that.

A studio that accepts a buyout from EA is like a person mainlining heroin using a needle that's been passed around a hundred different HIV+ heroin addicts. It gets the bug.

Sometimes it takes years for symptoms of illness to show. Some studios last decades before they waste away - and they last longer if they have proper treatment (in the case of Maxis, this was having Will Wright stay on board). But in the end it's incurable and terminal once treatment ceases, and the studio becomes weaker and skeletal before finally passing.

Re:EA Shuts Down ‘SimCity’ and ‘The Sims’ Developer Maxis by neolefty on Wednesday March 04, 2015 @11:29PM (#9149260)
Except when a company dies, no people actually die. They can go on and create new games and new companies.
Re:EA Shuts Down ‘SimCity’ and ‘The Sims’ Developer Maxis by serf on Thursday March 05, 2015 @12:31AM (#9149415)
>Except when a company dies, no people actually die.

except that isn't always true. [0]

Suicide Rates Rising for Older U.S. Adults - Rates for 40-64 year-olds may be increasing due to financial circumstances, according to American Journal of Preventive Medicine

[0] : http://www.elsevier.com/about/press-releases/research-and-jo...

Re:EA Shuts Down ‘SimCity’ and ‘The Sims’ Developer Maxis by louhike on Thursday March 05, 2015 @03:57AM (#9149823)
Are we really talking about suicide in a discussion about a company unsurprisingly shutting down? It is not because it is EA, which have a really bad reputation (which they partly deserve), than we should have a discussion of such a low quality.
Re:EA Shuts Down ‘SimCity’ and ‘The Sims’ Developer Maxis by AndyKelley on Wednesday March 04, 2015 @11:04PM (#9149176)
this is nonsense
Re:EA Shuts Down ‘SimCity’ and ‘The Sims’ Developer Maxis by hueving on Wednesday March 04, 2015 @11:23PM (#9149245)
Excellent rebuttal. I like how you clearly outlined and explained your counterpoints.
Re:EA Shuts Down ‘SimCity’ and ‘The Sims’ Developer Maxis by fragsworth on Thursday March 05, 2015 @03:17AM (#9149743)
There isn't much to outline or explain, because the original comment (creating an analogy between EA and a virus?) simply doesn't make any sense...
Re:EA Shuts Down ‘SimCity’ and ‘The Sims’ Developer Maxis by KhalilK on Wednesday March 04, 2015 @11:25PM (#9149248)
Care to elaborate?
Re:EA Shuts Down ‘SimCity’ and ‘The Sims’ Developer Maxis by spiritplumber on Wednesday March 04, 2015 @11:08PM (#9149191)
Yeah, you nailed it.
Re:EA Shuts Down ‘SimCity’ and ‘The Sims’ Developer Maxis by Lordo on Wednesday March 04, 2015 @10:48PM (#9149127)
Hahah excellent analogy.
Re:EA Shuts Down ‘SimCity’ and ‘The Sims’ Developer Maxis by tomelders on Thursday March 05, 2015 @04:41AM (#9149923)
If that's the plan... why even get out of bed in a morning. It's depressing? Stop giving these people money people.