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Re:Have We Drawn the Wrong Lessons from Epigenetics? by azakai on Friday February 27, 2015 @09:34PM (#9122562)
> Our new awareness of epigenetics challenges genetic determinism and throws a new wrench into nature-nurture debates.

It does?

> Epigenetic studies show that genes alone do not determine form and function,

Of course genes alone do not do that - that's the whole point of the nature-nurture debate, and the fact that most things are a mix of nature and nurture. We already knew a long time ago that genes alone do not determine form and function.

> but that the cellular environment matters in making people who they are as biological and social beings.

That also isn't new. Of course the cellular environment matters in making people (for example, fetal alcohol syndrome is a clear example of that, way before epigenetics).

The fascinating thing about epigenetics is something else entirely. It is that there is inheritance of traits via a path that is not DNA. This is incredibly important and interesting, but was not what showed us that genes do not determine everything about organisms, we knew that long before. In other words, we already knew non-genetic factors determined how organisms are formed and behave, but epigenetics showed us that those non-genetic factors can be inherited.

Re:Have We Drawn the Wrong Lessons from Epigenetics? by huj123 on Saturday February 28, 2015 @02:40AM (#9123092)
The "genetic determinism" thing is just a strawman. No scientists believe that genes alone determine everything about a person. For example the heritability of height in the US is 90%~, and no one says that it's 100%.
Re:Have We Drawn the Wrong Lessons from Epigenetics? by IndianAstronaut on Saturday February 28, 2015 @04:13AM (#9123246)
I don't think the author of the article fully understands the concept of epigenetics. It has to do with inheritance of non DNA traits not nature vs nurture.
Re:Have We Drawn the Wrong Lessons from Epigenetics? by pointernil on Saturday February 28, 2015 @06:33AM (#9123431)
Very true. I'd like just add to 'non-genetic factors can be inherited': those same non-genetic factors can adapt much quicker than the genetic factors.

It is the combination of inheritable and quickly adaptable, that makes epigenetics such an important finding.

Re:Have We Drawn the Wrong Lessons from Epigenetics? by pixelcort on Saturday February 28, 2015 @07:43AM (#9123522)
This nature/nurture distinction reminds me of dealing with bugs in large systems.

Some of the time it's the code (nature), sometimes it's the data (nurture).

Re:Have We Drawn the Wrong Lessons from Epigenetics? by sgt101 on Saturday February 28, 2015 @07:44AM (#9123526)
I'd turn that round ! Code is nurture (can be fixed/altered), data is nature (it's there, and it just don't care).
Re:Have We Drawn the Wrong Lessons from Epigenetics? by RockyMcNuts on Friday February 27, 2015 @11:41PM (#9122817)
hmmh... is that why Dutch people are tall? it's not because short people are selected out? If you gave a new generation of Dutch the diet/environment from 50 years ago would they revert to the height from 50 years ago? if not, why not? dumb questions no doubt but I don't really get how "inheritance by a path other than DNA" actually works, where the additional information gets stored.
Re:Have We Drawn the Wrong Lessons from Epigenetics? by TeMPOraL on Friday February 27, 2015 @11:51PM (#9122830)
DNA is data. A blueprint. But new organisms aren't made in a factory, they're made by other organisms, which were made by other organisms, etc. So when environmental factors affect which parts of the blueprint are used in construction of descendant organisms (and we know they can), those organisms can be different even though they share the same blueprint. Think of it as data implicit in code execution state, as children literally fork off the parent process and continue their lives.
Re:Have We Drawn the Wrong Lessons from Epigenetics? by RockyMcNuts on Saturday February 28, 2015 @09:18AM (#9123709)
Makes sense...what I don't really get is how that means 'heritability' other than through DNA.

Seems to me DNA is kind of like a recipe for beer, and on a humid day the beer comes out a little different with the same recipe. But if you go back to the original weather the beer will come out the same.

So if you sent a Dutch couple of today back in time to the diet and environment of 50 years ago, their kids would be the height Dutchmen would have been 50 years ago, since the DNA and environment are the same. Nothing else changed inside the Dutch that would make their kids taller, and the change in height isn't something that is 'heritable' through other than DNA.

Re:Have We Drawn the Wrong Lessons from Epigenetics? by im3w1l on Saturday February 28, 2015 @10:58AM (#9123995)
Methylation of cythosines decrease transcription rate. Meaning a gene becomes less active. Methylation state is heritable.
Re:Have We Drawn the Wrong Lessons from Epigenetics? by azakai on Saturday February 28, 2015 @12:48AM (#9122920)
For example, the changes can be other molecules aside from DNA. Like something that attaches to DNA and prevents a gene from being expressed.

What makes such a thing interesting is if it persists through cell divisions, and especially interesting if it is passed down to the next generation. And it turns out that, surprisingly, such things exist.

Re:Have We Drawn the Wrong Lessons from Epigenetics? by mjklin on Saturday February 28, 2015 @08:19AM (#9123600)
Would this non-DNA path for inheritance be the proteome rather than the genome?