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Re:Why Canada's anti-terror bill is unnecessary and dangerous by pyre on Friday February 27, 2015 @11:58AM (#9119864)
The problem is that if you are part of an activist group that has "members" who are extreme enough to commit criminal acts, law enforcement does not discriminate. Once a couple of members commit criminal acts, the entire group is guilty by association. We see this with race and religion, why would it be any difference with ideologies?

For example, if you go to enough Animal Rights protests, I've heard that you start to get a "profile" in law enforcement databases (at least in the US). Just look at how "AgGag" laws are passed specifically to "protect" specific industries from activists that want to film what goes on behind closed doors (and bring it to light).

As another example, look at the way that law enforcement in Canada dealt with the G20 summit.

Re:Why Canada's anti-terror bill is unnecessary and dangerous by leereeves on Friday February 27, 2015 @12:04PM (#9119908)
Or the way the Canadian government dealt with the October Crisis in 1970, deploying the military and arresting 497 people, most without charge or bail.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/October_Crisis

Re:Why Canada's anti-terror bill is unnecessary and dangerous by afterburner on Friday February 27, 2015 @02:48PM (#9120888)
ehhh... this doesn't sound so extreme given the FLQ kidnapped and killed a Member of Parliament, and kidnapped a foreign diplomat, after, over many years, planting a hundred bombs, including a large one at the Montreal Stock Exchange which hurt over 20 people.

The alternative could have been a permanent increase in military presence.

That said unjustified arrests are extremely stressful for the victims (those being arrested for no cause), so I certainly think that's terrible too.

Re:Why Canada's anti-terror bill is unnecessary and dangerous by engendered on Friday February 27, 2015 @12:02PM (#9119893)
C-51 has nothing to do with that, though. It doesn't tell CSIS to start investigating environmental groups.

C-51 gives law enforcement and intelligence some slightly more modern tools. For instance, they can demand that "terroristic" material is removed from the internet (where jurisdiction applies), which is a right that they already have for child pornography and hate material, with the agreement of a judge and the minister of justice. If they become aware of a subject, they can ask that the subject's ISPs capture data pending a warrant (versus waiting for the process of the warrant and perhaps miss things).

And so on. Remarkably few who comment on C-51 have any idea what it entails, or the scope changes it offers. But they ply, ironically, exactly the sort of rhetoric of fear that the right wing plies about terrorism -- somehow having an advance ability to request data capture == All lefties are going to be locked up.

Re:Why Canada's anti-terror bill is unnecessary and dangerous by GhotiFish on Friday February 27, 2015 @12:25PM (#9120025)
"But they ply, ironically, exactly the sort of rhetoric of fear that the right wing plies about terrorism -- somehow having an advance ability to request data capture == All lefties are going to be locked up."

Drumming a rhetoric of fear is exactly what is going on now to push this bill: http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/isis-recruiter-in-edmonton-enli...

and labeling inconvenient speech as "terroristic" is page 1 in playbook. This whole thing seems so ham-fisted that I'm amazed their are defenders of it.

Re:Why Canada's anti-terror bill is unnecessary and dangerous by engendered on Friday February 27, 2015 @04:38PM (#9121517)
So actual reality is "drumming a rhetoric of fear" now? Reality reported on by a fairly left news organization?

Fascinating.

Re:Why Canada's anti-terror bill is unnecessary and dangerous by maerF0x0 on Friday February 27, 2015 @12:36PM (#9120106)
One nuanced difference is the intents: CSIS was intended to capture "Foreign signals", it wasnt ever supposed to be used on Canadians. the CSE iirc does.

I think they're analogous to the NSA and FBI respectively.