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Re:The Long Tail of the English Language by madaxe_again on Thursday January 29, 2015 @12:16PM (#8967455)
Now I understand somewhat better why I often end up ceasing midway through discourse, as my colloquists often end up interjecting requesting definition of whatever neologism has just emanated from lexicon into conversation.... a random sampling of words that I have just today been asked to define either do not feature in this list at all, or are 90,000+ in terms of use. Brobdingnagian, deleterious, autodidact, loquaciousness... are these really such strange vernacular?

I suppose this is what happens when you spend your formative years buried in literature - it probably doesn't help that I mispronounce all sorts, as books make poor elocutionists.

I do worry that as we further and further consolidate our vocabulary that we lose the breadth and depth of thought that nuanced words provide... so did Orwell...

Re:The Long Tail of the English Language by aristus on Thursday January 29, 2015 @12:48PM (#8967676)
1. Never use a metaphor, simile, or other figure of speech which you are used to seeing in print.

2. Never use a long word where a short one will do.

3. If it is possible to cut a word out, always cut it out.

4. Never use the passive where you can use the active.

5. Never use a foreign phrase, a scientific word, or a jargon word if you can think of an everyday English equivalent.

6. Break any of these rules sooner than say anything outright barbarous.

-- Orwell, "Politics and the English Language"

Re:The Long Tail of the English Language by madaxe_again on Thursday January 29, 2015 @01:16PM (#8967870)
I was referring more to newspeak, as Orwell's thinking progressed over the intervening five years, but the above are perfectly valid editorial rules.

The thing is, note "will do" in (2). There are many cases where a short word really won't do, lest you lose nuance and meaning.

Re:The Long Tail of the English Language by sigilion on Thursday January 29, 2015 @04:31PM (#8968955)
Although a brief examination of your comment history suggests a satirical intent in what you have written, it has (at face value) some errors. If you truly intend to build your defense for this posturing polysyallabic puffery on the foundation of subtle distinctions in meaning you would be well served by properly understanding the customary meaning of the words in question, subtle or otherwise.

Taking, as an example, the final sentence of your first paragraph: "Brobdingnagian, deleterious, autodidact, loquaciousness... are these really such strange vernacular?" we find a sentence that is grammatically incorrect, with the singular form of vernacular. Assuming a typographically damaged plural does no good, as these words are not vernaculars. We do no better with the assumption of an elided indefinite article ("are these really such [a] strange vernacular?") as the answer is trivially yes, attempting conversation using only these words (Brobdingnagian, deleterious, autodidact, and loquaciousness) would be an exercise of Cnutian futility. As the recurring problem in finding meaning in this sentence is this definition may I suggest that perhaps the primary issue is in the choice of words? I would suggest the substitution of "words" in place of "vernacular", as this recovers a perfectly sensible rhetorical question. Perhaps, in keeping with the theme of subtle distinction in word choice, "obscure" could be substituted for "strange", signifying the strangeness is rooted in rarity of use, rather than e.g. etymology.

Re:The Long Tail of the English Language by delluminatus on Thursday January 29, 2015 @12:49PM (#8967690)
Ah, another person who talks like a book. I also get that quite regularly. I have a bit of a personal rule, though, where I never use a more complicated word when a simpler one would work. After all, conversation is at heart a means of communication.

Although we might get a bit of a thrill from talking over people's heads, it doesn't really mean much of anything. And all it takes is one misuse -- for example, calling Brobdingnagian a neologism -- and we tear ourselves down more than we could hope to build ourselves up.

Re:The Long Tail of the English Language by madaxe_again on Thursday January 29, 2015 @01:10PM (#8967836)
Brobdingnagian is a neologism though. Swift quoined it scarcely two centuries ago, which is a ... Lilliputian (sorry)... amount of time in linguistic terms. I suppose it also depends on what you consider to be contemporaneous. I'm my case, this era, which opened with the enlightenment...

Agreed - never use a complicated word when a simple one will do - but you either have to turn verbose or lose nuance, as we're not talking synonyms, but words which have meanings distinct from some of their more commonplace counterparts.

No thrill, I just hate taking the colour out of language, and I like to share words far and wide, so they don't drift into oblivion, along with the thought and meaning behind them.

Re:The Long Tail of the English Language by delluminatus on Thursday January 29, 2015 @01:46PM (#8968039)
Oh well. I guess if you want "neologism" to mean "any word invented in the past 300 years", that's your prerogative, but I take a very different meaning. One interesting side-effect of that interpretation is that "neologism" becomes autological, since it was itself coined in that period.

It's true that there are sometimes nuances lost in the conversion from large to small, but there is far more nuance lost once your partner doesn't know what the hell you are saying. For you, Brobdingnagian might have some special nuance (I'm picking on that word because it is ridiculous to me), but to your partner it has no nuance or flavor -- they have no associations with that word, nor any grasp of any subtleties of meaning -- in fact they don't grasp the meaning at all. So if you are trying to get something across, it's simply a bad way to do it.

I mean, don't get me wrong -- I don't want to deride big-word-users. If you want to do to because you like it -- that's obviously fine. Also, if someone does happen to have a thing with Brobdingnagian, I guess you might have just made their day a lot better. But at some point, you have to acknowledge that obscure vocabulary is more of a hindrance than a boon to communication.

Re:The Long Tail of the English Language by nthcolumn on Thursday January 29, 2015 @03:05PM (#8968515)
You are obviously aware of my favourite; Hemingway on Faulkner:"Poor Faulkner. Does he really think big emotions come from big words? He thinks I don’t know the ten-dollar words. I know them all right. But there are older and simpler and better words, and those are the ones I use."

Children may be precocious and tolerable. I recall the joy of finding new words - grownup words. Most people find it pretentious and condescending in adults. It is poor communication. Want a game of who can think of the most obscure word? Firstly I tried 'widdershins'. Let's exclude Brobdingnagian as an obvious neologism. (Not trolling - really can't see why you think it ain't?)

Re:The Long Tail of the English Language by qsymmachus on Thursday January 29, 2015 @12:50PM (#8967695)
Poe's law is making it difficult to come up with an appropriate response to this.
Re:The Long Tail of the English Language by Terr_ on Thursday January 29, 2015 @01:52PM (#8968074)
> are these really such strange vernacular?

Nah. I'm proud to say I got everything except Brobdingnagian, which on further investigation is more of a literary reference than a "real" word.

Re:The Long Tail of the English Language by nzealand on Thursday January 29, 2015 @02:17PM (#8968241)
How very antidisestablishmentarianist of you.

(Sorry, I tried to resist, but I could not.)