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Re:The devastating impact of vaccine deniers, in one measles... by netcan on Friday January 23, 2015 @09:46AM (#8935045)
This is tangental:

I am getting really sick of the use of the term "denier." It's become cliched to a point where it become a euphemism intended to heard people into mental boxes and obscure rather than convey meaning.

I don't have all that much sympathy for people who don't follow the normal vaccination schedule for their kids. I think it's somewhat complex though. For example, some vaccines are more for public than private health. I think it's valid to be weirded out by a strong demand that kids go through a medical procedure for the good of humanity, rather than their own health.

On one hand I think the work being done by the Gates Foundation on wiping out Polio is incredible. On the other, how much pressure is reasonable to put on parents to vaccinate their children against an illness that poses less danger to them than meteors.

In any case, "denier" has become a term that almost always diminishes nuance and meaning rather than enhancing it. It ensures an us-and-them format to a topic. It also has a real nasty connotation (in my mind) to heresy. A heretic is a denier. In the wake of last week's attacks in Paris, it sounds even worse to me.

These people may be wrong or misguided. You might disagree with their assumptions, their conclusions or even their values. But, there is no reason or utility in this nastiness. There is less chance of convincing anyone with this language. And to those of us on the opposite side of the debate, it makes us dumber to allow such mental patterns to dominate our thinking.

Re:The devastating impact of vaccine deniers, in one measles... by huxley on Friday January 23, 2015 @09:59AM (#8935126)
"On the other, how much pressure is reasonable to put on parents to vaccinate their children against an illness that poses less danger to them than meteors."

Lifetime odds of dying from a meteor strike: 1-in-250-million

source: Dr. Sten Odenwald, NIA (National Institute of Aerospace)

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dr-sten-odenwald/death-by-mete...

Re:The devastating impact of vaccine deniers, in one measles... by netcan on Saturday January 24, 2015 @06:05AM (#8939343)
I was perhaps taking a little license. But as things stand now, I think a child's chances of contracting polio outside of a handful of remote war torn areas is in that ballpark.
Re:The devastating impact of vaccine deniers, in one measles... by huxley on Monday January 26, 2015 @08:07PM (#8950710)
Any thoughts on why their chances are so low?
Re:The devastating impact of vaccine deniers, in one measles... by EpicEng on Friday January 23, 2015 @02:36PM (#8936770)
"On the other, how much pressure is reasonable to put on parents to vaccinate their children against an illness that poses less danger to them than meteors."

Not sure about the statistic, but it's irrelevant; the reason polio is not acommon that is because... Wait for it... We all get immunized! If we just stop getting the immunization and a strain comes in from over seas (which it does, even today), well, it's a problem again.

You speak of a debate as if each side is on equal footing, but that's not the case. This is a debate of fact vs ignorance. These people put everyone else at risk, my children as well as your own. I have little patience for that dangerous sort of ignorance, and I'm ok with harsh language.

Re:The devastating impact of vaccine deniers, in one measles... by netcan on Saturday January 24, 2015 @06:08AM (#8939347)
No. I'm not.

I'm just saying that while we're debating, be civil. It's not just about being nice. Thinking in labels like "denier" makes us dumber, less likely to be correct.

Hold your position. Argue for it. Just, do it intelligently and reasonably.

Re:The devastating impact of vaccine deniers, in one measles... by chrismcb on Saturday January 24, 2015 @01:22AM (#8938982)
There are a group of people who are actively fighting immunization and using bad science to show that it is bad for you. This is a different than someone who doesn't follow the normal vaccination schedule, because why bother. The former group is worse than the later because they convince others that it is bad. Enough that people die.
Re:The devastating impact of vaccine deniers, in one measles... by iterationx on Friday January 23, 2015 @03:07PM (#8936949)
Name calling is a way to short-circuit any discussion and slander your opponent.