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Re:What the Swiss Franc Appreciation Means by sandstrom on Sunday January 18, 2015 @04:33PM (#8908998)
# It was expected

I think it was expected from the outset that this would be a temporary peg/floor. There has been recent hints on this.

# It's not a war

Also, this isn't a 'currency war' in anyway. If there is any adjustment that other countries typically dislike it's devaluations, since that'll make their currency relatively more expensive, causing a short-term disadvantage for exporters [whom often line politicians pockets]. This was the opposite, a revaluation (or correction).

Inconsistently people called this a 'currency war' when the floor was introduced too[1].

# Losses

Sure, a few companies were bankrupted because of risky speculation, that happens all the time. It was foolish to believe that this floor would exist indefinitely, and thus any position making that assumption would obviously be very risky.

Interestingly people lost money[2] when the floor was introduced only 3 years ago. Sometimes memory is short.

[1] http://citywire.co.uk/money/have-swiss-won-currency-war-with...

[2] http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2037632/Kweku-Adobol...

Re:What the Swiss Franc Appreciation Means by cynicalkane on Sunday January 18, 2015 @06:21PM (#8909415)
My impression is that economists generally thought the Swiss central bank would keep the peg, because why wouldn't they? There's no economic law stopping them and it was obviously good for the Swiss economy.

The fear of central banks with large balance sheets is a powerful political force, one that economists don't really appreciate. The rational thing would be to keep the peg (or even better, target inflation or NGDP) but an unfortunate majority of politicians and voters are fearful of "printing money". Just as central banks around the world keep making the mistake of allowing falls in the inflation rate during a recession, economists keep making the mistake of assuming the next central bank will listen to them.

Re:What the Swiss Franc Appreciation Means by Fizzgig on Sunday January 18, 2015 @06:36PM (#8909460)
Re:What the Swiss Franc Appreciation Means by fla on Sunday January 18, 2015 @07:06PM (#8909557)
Keeping the peg means buying more and more euros. It's not sustainable.
Re:What the Swiss Franc Appreciation Means by tormeh on Sunday January 18, 2015 @08:49PM (#8909871)
It was. The Swiss central bank just had to print francs to sell for euros. It wasn't like the rest of the world didn't want those francs. Remember that this floor was about keeping the franc down.
Re:What the Swiss Franc Appreciation Means by Fizzgig on Sunday January 18, 2015 @07:16PM (#8909591)
Exactly.

Europe announcing QE on the scale of the US markets lead directly the CHF moves.

My comment below that showed the media reporting of this is now "down-voted".

>>Out.

Funny. HN - the new Reddit.

Re:What the Swiss Franc Appreciation Means by Fizzgig on Sunday January 18, 2015 @04:54PM (#8909082)
Sorry to disagree, but:

#It's not a war

Yes, yes it is. Has been since the 70's. Anyone who tells you that currency markets aren't a function of State Power doesn't know what CB's do[1][2]. [The public side to this story is that the IMF wasn't informed prior to the move - work out why].

#Losses

Heavily leveraged FOREX companies (aka day babies) were taken to the cleaners, and some banks / funds who had positions lost out. Look at the # of positions that were closed out for the real story.

#Russia

It's interesting to note who holds what in Swiss Banks, and in CHF. Just a thought[3][4]

#HappyCamperFunTimes

Rumor has it that HFTs are going to be heavily ganked very soon, to the tune of 60% through-flow. You didn't hear that here.

[1]http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/2773265/Billionaire-who-b... [2]http://www.cfr.org/about/membership/roster.html?letter=S [3]http://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/dec/08/wikileaks-us-ru... [4]http://itar-tass.com/en/economy/769344

Re:What the Swiss Franc Appreciation Means by beagle3 on Sunday January 18, 2015 @07:23PM (#8909624)
> Rumor has it that HFTs are going to be heavily ganked very soon, to the tune of 60% through-flow

Ganked in the "stolen" sense, or in the "outnumbered" sense? Neither makes sense to me. I'm not hearing this here, but .. can you elaborate?

Re:What the Swiss Franc Appreciation Means by Fizzgig on Sunday January 18, 2015 @07:30PM (#8909642)
Ganked - as in MMO style:

a) With Legal rules made against a majority of HFT processes (edited - pathways is probably a weird weft for HN)

b) With aggressive >contra algos employed to prevent certain HFT processes working

c) With bandwidth / latency stingrays employed

It's happening as we speak: a lot of players high up in the game are tired of HFTs.

Note: this is all rumor, and plausible deniability has been engaged.

You didn't hear it here, but it's gonna happen.

Re:What the Swiss Franc Appreciation Means by Fizzgig on Sunday January 18, 2015 @08:02PM (#8909746)
Again, the downvotes. Ganked means "[i]killed without any ability to stop being killed[/i]"

Aggressive control of HFT in the market is already on the books. Will it save the markets in the next phase?

Nope, but it's on the books. Hilarious that no-one here is connected enough to know this.

Be Seeing You.

Re:What the Swiss Franc Appreciation Means by beagle3 on Monday January 19, 2015 @07:49AM (#8911650)
There are various kinds of HFTs, and some will be ganked, but others are generally indistinguishable from trading that the markets believe are healthy (I'm familiar with more than one "buy-side-only" HFT firms, for example, who would still be profitable through transaction taxes and "order must stay in the market at least 5 seconds" rules which had been contemplated).

Though, I'd be surprised if any law gets passed and enforced against HFT as long as Goldman is HFTing. They have too much klaut to make that happen. Once they stop profiting from HFT - everything goes

Re:What the Swiss Franc Appreciation Means by jeffreyrogers on Sunday January 18, 2015 @08:18PM (#8909786)
Thanks for posting this. It's interesting info. Sorry you're getting downvoted. I'm not really sure why that is.
Re:What the Swiss Franc Appreciation Means by Estragon on Sunday January 18, 2015 @10:26PM (#8910135)
> control of HFT in the market is already on the books

What are the relevant regulations?

Re:What the Swiss Franc Appreciation Means by mahyarm on Sunday January 18, 2015 @11:28PM (#8910326)
Well for example, there is a proposed transaction tax by some politician in the USA, targeting HFT processes. It wouldn't be painful for joe buying his mutual fund EFTs every month, but it will be for HFTs.
Re:What the Swiss Franc Appreciation Means by Estragon on Monday January 19, 2015 @03:03AM (#8910888)
That's not on the books, that's not even in a committee yet, is it?
Re:What the Swiss Franc Appreciation Means by yourapostasy on Tuesday January 20, 2015 @02:27AM (#8915828)
It's interesting you posted this, then about a day afterwards Luminex was announced [1] [2]. I'm not familiar with the term of art "latency stingray", and it doesn't turn up in a Google, can you please point me to a page about it?

I'm confused about your assertion "a lot of players high up..."; GS is quite high up there, and they're very active in HFT, as are many others, so that seems at odds with your assertion that powerful players are "tired of HFTs" (unless they are playing only to essentially defend their more strategic interests). Any more powerful than them, and I'm thinking executive political participants, but I'm hard-pressed to think of any of them who could actually put something actionable into place would care about HFTs. Unless the volatility induced by HFTs during certain market scenarios is presenting a problematic obstacle for achieving specific nation-state strategic goals, I can't see how national-level political actors would involve themselves with clamping down on HFT activity?

Anyways, fascinating food for thought, thanks for bringing this up.

[1] http://www.marketwatch.com/story/money-managers-led-by-fidel...

[2] Paywalled: http://www.wsj.com/articles/money-managers-led-by-fidelity-c...

Re:What the Swiss Franc Appreciation Means by sunstone on Monday January 19, 2015 @12:35AM (#8910499)
Having read Flash Boys it's pretty clear that HFT is just legalized theft. The vested interests can keep it going for a while but it's not viable in the long term.
Re:What the Swiss Franc Appreciation Means by joshdick on Sunday January 18, 2015 @10:57PM (#8910223)
Clearly markets weren't expecting the change, or else they wouldn't've been so volatile after the announcement.
Re:What the Swiss Franc Appreciation Means by dagw on Monday January 19, 2015 @09:10AM (#8911947)
They were expecting it long run, they just weren't expecting it that day. If you'd asked people last week if the peg would still be in place 10 years from now, most people in the market would have said "no". If you'd asked them if would still be in place 10 days from now, most would have said "yes".