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Re:The Mathematics Community and the NSA [pdf] by Conduit19 on Thursday January 15, 2015 @07:35AM (#8892182)
The author repeatedly refers to the NSA operating within the bounds of the law and set policy. Do not be fooled by that decoy. Yes, they may be operating legally;but there in lies the fundamental problem: the law and policy is lax, to put it gently.
Re:The Mathematics Community and the NSA [pdf] by gdne on Thursday January 15, 2015 @09:17AM (#8892546)
Absolutely agree. People often fall into the false mindset that legal = morally or ethically right. Law is neither. Law is the result of politically motivated negotiations which managed to reach majority consensus. It could be argued that law is amoral.
Re:The Mathematics Community and the NSA [pdf] by skyshine on Thursday January 15, 2015 @10:06AM (#8892788)
> majority consensus.

A majority consensus of those who have been bribed enough to make a mockery of the idea.

Re:The Mathematics Community and the NSA [pdf] by wavefunction on Thursday January 15, 2015 @07:38AM (#8892198)
They're also relying on legal opinions provided by interested and involved parties, so the claim of "legality" is dubious at best.
Re:The Mathematics Community and the NSA [pdf] by briandear on Thursday January 15, 2015 @09:59AM (#8892749)
And thus, we are to blame. When was the last time anyone voted for a candidate based on their privacy stance? Can anyone name a presumptive presidential candidate who has spoken out against NSA abuses? I can name one but I'd get downvotes just for mentioning his name.

The simple tragedy is that most Americans don't have the time or inclination to understand the nuances of the issue -- at least not to a degree that they'd vote on that issue.

Most people seem to think "higher taxes bad; tax the rich; end welfare; increase welfare; no free school lunches; more free lunches.." People seem to be almost binary in their understanding of the issues of the day.

Let's hope that changes. The fact is that most people can at least understand the idea of online privacy, but when issues like illegal file sharing or similar things that aren't in the mainstream of your average person, then the passion for the issue is muted.

If, for example, there were high profile cases that made the national news about Grandma getting violated in a detrimental way by the NSA, then maybe the issue would gain traction. However, privacy violations typically happen to either a "criminal" or "someone else." So the issue is ignored.

It's everyone's issue, but the issue hasn't been well framed. It's the same logic used to get traffic camera installed: "If you ain't doing anything wrong, then it shouldn't matter."

Frustrating.

Re:The Mathematics Community and the NSA [pdf] by abecedarius on Thursday January 15, 2015 @01:53PM (#8894529)
I did vote for Obama in 2008 because he promised no more warrantless wiretaps and in general seemed the least-bad 'realistic' (as in Schelling-point) choice for civil liberty. (I did not in 2012.) I agree that not nearly enough people give creeping totalitarianism its proper priority in voting; for the foreseeable future some other sort of action is needed.
Re:The Mathematics Community and the NSA [pdf] by bediger4000 on Thursday January 15, 2015 @12:38PM (#8893962)
I voted for Mark Udall for Colorado Senator last November, mostly for his work on the Senate Intelligence Committee. Does that count?
Re:The Mathematics Community and the NSA [pdf] by ingler on Thursday January 15, 2015 @10:46AM (#8893088)
The NSA doesn't consider itself bound by law and hasn't since its inception. During the Church Committee hearings in the 70s, the NSA's general counsel admitted as much:

“No existing statutes control, limit, or define the signals intelligence activities of the NSA.”

-Roy Banner

Re:The Mathematics Community and the NSA [pdf] by jostmey on Thursday January 15, 2015 @01:37PM (#8894413)
The fourth amendment was written in the simplest possible terms because it was meant to be interpreted by us. The moment we stop interpreting this constitution right for ourselves, and let politicians and lawyers interpret it for us, is the moment we surrender our freedom. As part of the constitution, no other law or ruling can supersede it, no matter how much some bureaucrats and fear-mongers may say otherwise.

No matter what policy the NSA comes up with, it cannot trump our fourth amendment right, nor our right to interpret it.