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Re:FBI Director: Sony’s ‘Sloppy’ North Korean Hackers Reveal... by drzaiusapelord on Wednesday January 07, 2015 @03:42PM (#8853168)
Funny, when the IP addresses weren't NKorea, as earlier highly voted HN articles have told us, it was proof that it wasn't NKorea. Now that they do, its somehow further proof that it wasn't N Korea.

I understand knee-jerk anti-US comments are karma gold here, but I don't think you guys realize how ridiculous you sound to the rest of us. I think its pretty difficult to arm-chair analyze this stuff and come out with a definitive answer, especially considering a lot of this stuff will never be declassified, but the Alex Jones-like conspiracy thinking here really brings the discourse down to a reddit-like level.

Purely from an Occam's razor perspective, the country that attacked this film and warned of consequences if released-- consequences that actually happened, is probably at fault here. This analysis of how it must have been anyone but NKorea, especially considering NKorea's reputation, is highly questionable to the unbiased observer.

Re:FBI Director: Sony’s ‘Sloppy’ North Korean Hackers Reveal... by siegecraft on Wednesday January 07, 2015 @03:56PM (#8853255)
Who is saying this is proof that it wasn't NKorea? Straw man. People on HN are just more likely to believe Schneier or other respectable security people, and not government agencies who by their very nature are going to have their own agenda and not be 100% honest.

As far as consequences that actually happened -- Do you mean to say that theaters that showed the film were bombed? Or are you referring to embarassing email leaks which would have no doubt been released anyway?

Re:FBI Director: Sony’s ‘Sloppy’ North Korean Hackers Reveal... by politician on Wednesday January 07, 2015 @04:38PM (#8853481)
First, mentioning Occam's Razor isn't really helpful in realpolitik discussions and certainly not helpful in discussions involving DPRK since they are well-known irrational actors. Occam's Razor only states that the scenario with the fewest assumptions is likely correct. That isn't really useful when your scenario involves an unpredictable state actor.

Second, if you need to set up a fall guy, then implicating a nation state as historically secretive, aggressive, and isolated as the North Koreans is actually a pretty good idea.

"Do something bad and blame the weird kid" isn't a new idea.

I don't know who did it, but both arguments seem plausible.

Re:FBI Director: Sony’s ‘Sloppy’ North Korean Hackers Reveal... by woodman on Wednesday January 07, 2015 @08:34PM (#8854547)
The assumption that the DPRK is an irrational actor would actually be handled just fine under Occam's Razor, it is simply an additional variable in the hypotheses.
Re:FBI Director: Sony’s ‘Sloppy’ North Korean Hackers Reveal... by ddod on Wednesday January 07, 2015 @04:05PM (#8853294)
I'm not sure how anything I said was anti-US. Is being at all reluctant to believe everything one hears anti-US to you? I'm wondering who is bringing discourse down here besides the person attacking commenters instead of discussing the content of their comments.
Re:FBI Director: Sony’s ‘Sloppy’ North Korean Hackers Reveal... by res0nat0r on Wednesday January 07, 2015 @04:32PM (#8853448)
This is supposed to be a technical forum, but any post now related to the US government or the NSA too many people here now throw all of their technical know-how out the door and everything becomes conspiracy theory. Yet somehow Joe Random bloggers repudiations of said government are not met with any skepticism. Confirmation bias in full effect in these threads these days.
Re:FBI Director: Sony’s ‘Sloppy’ North Korean Hackers Reveal... by ddod on Wednesday January 07, 2015 @04:47PM (#8853518)
Confirmation bias is definitely in full effect... My comment was on the technical aspects of the story and specifically highlighted the non-technical evidence as substandard. Joe Random bloggers who I've seen repudiate the government have by and large been well-known security experts compared to the nameless hand-waving of the FBI. I think what it comes down to is the question of whether educated people, after Snowden, WMDs, torture, and so on are better off presuming the accuracy or inaccuracy of the government's statements.
Re:FBI Director: Sony’s ‘Sloppy’ North Korean Hackers Reveal... by res0nat0r on Wednesday January 07, 2015 @05:05PM (#8853626)
This type of thinking is the exact problem that I'm highlighting. I respect Schneier and have read his stuff for a long time, and even gone to see him speak, but believing him over the FBI is just an appeal to authority when he is just another outsider without having access to any first-hand knowledge of what evidence the FBI possesses.

Also now after Snowden everything the USG does is to be doubted (I'm guessing since his revelations affect the internet and this is the first issue that has directly affected people on HN), and now everything they do can somehow be traced back to trying to suppress, hamper, weaken and spy on you via internet.

Watching the theories that somehow we'd try to use N Korea who have zero value economic value to the USA, or actually posing a threat as some kind of scapegoat to hinder online speech is more entertaining than anything else.

Re:FBI Director: Sony’s ‘Sloppy’ North Korean Hackers Reveal... by davidw on Wednesday January 07, 2015 @03:44PM (#8853183)
> the Alex Jones-like conspiracy thinking here really brings the discourse down to a reddit-like level.

That's where political discussions inevitably and invariably end up. Probably best to just flag these articles.

Re:FBI Director: Sony’s ‘Sloppy’ North Korean Hackers Reveal... by nitrogen on Wednesday January 07, 2015 @04:01PM (#8853278)
...especially considering a lot of this stuff will never be declassified...

How can the US claim to be a republic when it doesn't even bother to justify its actions to its people and their representatives?

Re:FBI Director: Sony’s ‘Sloppy’ North Korean Hackers Reveal... by EpicEng on Wednesday January 07, 2015 @05:10PM (#8853654)
Because the real world doesn't fit nicely into theoretical boxes. I'd like to have their facts as well, but you cannot seriously expect the government to potentially lose future sources of information or even risk people's lives by handing out every bit of info they have. Some things are classified for a very good reason and should stay so for some time.
Re:FBI Director: Sony’s ‘Sloppy’ North Korean Hackers Reveal... by nitrogen on Wednesday January 07, 2015 @08:36PM (#8854555)
Some things are classified for a very good reason and should stay so for some time.

This is an oft-repeated claim that is sorely in need of justification. Especially in this case, where the attack is purely digital.

Re:FBI Director: Sony’s ‘Sloppy’ North Korean Hackers Reveal... by EpicEng on Thursday January 08, 2015 @01:26PM (#8857917)
It's really not, the justification is obvious; revealing information may very well also reveal how it was obtained. I understand the skepticism, and obviously this justification could easily be abused, but it's not some imaginary thing.

My wife worked in Navy intelligence for six years. She was privy to classified information. She, at times, knew where information was coming from, and it is obvious that the information itself would have implicated its source if it were to be released.

I'm not saying that's the case here. I'm pretty damn skeptical of my government as well. That said, the Fed is under no obligation to reveal all of the information it has. I think we'll be in the dark on this one for some time unless things change in such a way that would require more information to be released.

Re:FBI Director: Sony’s ‘Sloppy’ North Korean Hackers Reveal... by nitrogen on Saturday January 10, 2015 @12:16AM (#8865990)
I think we'll be in the dark on this one for some time unless things change in such a way that would require more information to be released.

I strongly dislike this paternalistic approach, and I'm rather tired of the people being treated like children. We know things are complicated. We know geopolitics are more complex than "USA good, NK bad" or vice versa. They could say a lot more than they are saying without compromising their intelligence gathering capabilities.

If the US government wants support and trust, it needs to earn it from every new generation of citizens. If it doesn't care about support and trust, it has overstepped its bounds as a representative government and should be reeled in.

Re:FBI Director: Sony’s ‘Sloppy’ North Korean Hackers Reveal... by AnthonyMouse on Wednesday January 07, 2015 @05:29PM (#8853763)
> Purely from an Occam's razor perspective, the country that attacked this film and warned of consequences if released-- consequences that actually happened, is probably at fault here. This analysis of how it must have been anyone but NKorea, especially considering NKorea's reputation, is highly questionable to the unbiased observer.

The correct response to "who was responsible for this" is "who cares". The FBI seems to think it matters, so people are refuting their evidence. And are reasons for that.

The government has no credibility in this area. Iraq didn't have weapons of mass destruction. This has the same ring to it. They have a lot of the same incentives. It doesn't even matter whether they're intentionally misleading us or just incompetent, the solution in either case is to disregard whatever they say.

And they can't actually tell where the attack came from. That's not how it works -- especially if the attacker is trying to disguise their true location as they have every incentive to do. Computers in North Korea are not immune from the myriad Java and Flash vulnerabilities, and once you pop one machine you can put ssh on a VM and stage your attack from it. Distinguishing that from the attacker being physically in the same room as that machine is not going to happen based on an analysis of network traffic or anything to do with IP addresses. Anyone who claims otherwise could be malicious or just wrong, but it's at least one of those.

None of that proves it wasn't North Korea. The point is that it doesn't matter. What are you going to do differently if it was, as opposed to being some troll in Florida? The only sensible things to do are the same in either case. Stop using ridiculously bad passwords, etc. What changes if it was North Korea? Are we going to invade? Should we give the FBI new powers of cyber warfare? That's what people are afraid of, because those are profoundly stupid ideas.

Re:FBI Director: Sony’s ‘Sloppy’ North Korean Hackers Reveal... by rst on Wednesday January 07, 2015 @04:21PM (#8853389)
The earlier set of IP addresses was pretty conclusively not North Korea. The new set of IP addresses is ... undisclosed, so until that changes, they can say whatever they like without any "danger" of being checked.

(Not buying "sources and methods" as a reason for failure to disclose in this case -- I may not know what IP addresses are conclusively tied to North Korea, but the North Koreans themselves certainly do, and they must assume that the NSA does as well. Particularly if, as Comey claims, the use of those addresses "unshielded" was an error that they immediately recognized as such, and rectified post haste.)

Re:FBI Director: Sony’s ‘Sloppy’ North Korean Hackers Reveal... by indlebe on Wednesday January 07, 2015 @03:50PM (#8853226)
I would disagree on your point that "knee-jerk anti-US comments are karma gold here" on 2 notes, 1 that being anti-US-administration is not being anti-US, and 2 that most unsubstantiated comments that are critical of government actions almost always get down voted to oblivion.

Everyone knew that North Korea had it out for Sony, what's to stop a network security enthusiast from stirring the pot by performing the attack and planting "evidence" that it was coming from North Korea. I don't think it's far fetched to think that many young security enthusiasts would get excited to think about causing such a stir.

Re:FBI Director: Sony’s ‘Sloppy’ North Korean Hackers Reveal... by vezzy-fnord on Wednesday January 07, 2015 @04:01PM (#8853279)
Purely from an Occam's razor perspective, the country that attacked this film and warned of consequences if released-- consequences that actually happened, is probably at fault here.

I don't recall Occam's razor ever applying to politics.