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Re:Skeptical Scientists Urge World To 'Have the Courage to D... by sethjohn on Tuesday December 11, 2007 @12:27PM (#88277)
"We now have quite a lot of evidence that carbon emissions definitely don't cause global warming."

"The UN conference is a complete waste of our time and your money and we should no longer pay the slightest attention to the IPCC"

"carbon trading is more about fraud than it is about anything else"

This is the sort of nonsense that makes me ashamed to call myself a 'climate skeptic'. Then of course, I watch Al Gore's film where he shows Florida sinking under the ocean and that is ridiculous as well. Climate change is a potential-problem about which there are great (truly gigantic!) uncertainties and therefore no easy answers.

Re:Skeptical Scientists Urge World To 'Have the Courage to D... by brlewis on Tuesday December 11, 2007 @12:42PM (#88286)
In Gore's film he talks about Antarctic ice melting much faster than scientists projected. That's part of the gigantic uncertainty you're concerned about. When there's gigantic uncertainty, a valid question is, "What is the worst-case scenario here?" Gore presented the Florida scenario as something that could happen if all the ice melted.
Re:Skeptical Scientists Urge World To 'Have the Courage to D... by sethjohn on Tuesday December 11, 2007 @12:55PM (#88293)
"What's the worst case scenario" may be a valid question, but it's not a very helpful question...particularly not in a mass-market film where the caveat 'this is extremely unlikely' will be forgotten and the take-home message is that Florida is about to disappear.

People should be informed about the issues in a manner that is as honest and realistic as possible, particularly when the uncertainties are so great.

Re:Skeptical Scientists Urge World To 'Have the Courage to D... by jraines on Tuesday December 11, 2007 @01:14PM (#88309)
It is a helpful question when thinking about what action to take. It's basic game theory, and it's why nobody ever launched a nuclear first strike during the Cold War.

Why is this being modded down? If you don't consider the worst case scenario in strategic decision making, you're a fool. Especially when the worst case is famine, plague, etc., not "my startup crashes and I move back in with the parents".

Re:Skeptical Scientists Urge World To 'Have the Courage to D... by te_platt on Tuesday December 11, 2007 @04:12PM (#88397)
It only makes sense to consider the worst case scenario in the context of the probability that it will happen. On my drive home the worst case scenario is that I will be killed in a car accident, yet I'm going to take that chance. Also we have to consider the worst case scenario of the other course of action. What if the actions taken to combat global warming cause worse famine, plague, etc.?
Re:Skeptical Scientists Urge World To 'Have the Courage to D... by jraines on Wednesday December 12, 2007 @06:32PM (#88913)
You are correct about this. Without getting into probabilities of the different outcomes resulting from action or non-action on climate change, I'd recommend the video someone posted lower down in this thread.

The weight given to an outcome in considering it in decision making would be the probability x magnitude (+ or -). So on your drive home the risk of death might not affect your decision to make the drive, if you had to drive across Johannesburg or Kuala Lumpar, you might consider taking a cab.

So even while the probability that the Country A would survive a nuclear first strike with the capability to retaliate was quite low -- the magnitude of the outcome from its doing so was enough to dissuade Country B from taking that chance.

To the other commenter below -- just google 'prisoner's dilemma' or 'Nash equilibrium' for some sources to get you started on game theory.

Note: I'm not claiming to be an expert on game theory by any means. I'm recounting the Mutually Assured Destruction example from an economics class's subsection on game theory and would be happy if someone wanted to prove me wrong or elaborate on the subject.

Re:Skeptical Scientists Urge World To 'Have the Courage to D... by downer on Wednesday December 12, 2007 @01:33AM (#88611)
> On my drive home the worst case scenario is that I will be killed in a car accident

No, the worst case scenario is you crash and are alive but trapped... At night, the ice weasels come.

Re:Skeptical Scientists Urge World To 'Have the Courage to D... by huherto on Tuesday December 11, 2007 @04:54PM (#88409)
You comment is very intriguing. Can you recommend any references to strategic decision making in basic game theory? Thanks.
Re:Skeptical Scientists Urge World To 'Have the Courage to D... by ekanes on Tuesday December 11, 2007 @05:01PM (#88411)
Here's a video exploring a game theory approach to the climate change problem: http://youtube.com/watch?v=zORv8wwiadQ
Re:Skeptical Scientists Urge World To 'Have the Courage to D... by pixcavator on Tuesday December 11, 2007 @04:15PM (#88399)
> Antarctic ice melting much faster than scientists projected.

This only proves that those models were crap.

Re:Skeptical Scientists Urge World To 'Have the Courage to D... by pixcavator on Wednesday December 12, 2007 @11:10AM (#88741)