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Re:What I.Q. doesn't tell you about race by neilk on Tuesday December 11, 2007 @03:04AM (#88169)
1) Race, genetically, doesn't exist. People who are black basically have one trait in common: black skin. Just think of how "White" covers a range from the Sami people of Scandinavia all the way to the Portuguese or the Persians. And "black" covers everything from Zulus to Pygmies.

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/1998-10/WUiS-GSRD-071...

This isn't to say that heredity plays no part, or that certain groups of people won't be more likely to have certain traits. Maybe you could say that some tribes in West Africa are such-and-such. But we can't expect our eyes to reveal genetic truths.

2) I think you're missing Gladwell's point. It is not that heredity doesn't affect the brain. It's that IQ testing is far too flawed to yield meaningful results, especially when comparing groups of people tested in different places and at different times.

In the story, they mention how properly normalized IQ tests find that Asians have a lower average IQ than whites. They speculate that Asians' success in academics is due to cultural values and individual efforts -- and if you know any super-achiever Asian students, that was in plain sight all along!

Re:What I.Q. doesn't tell you about race by nailer on Tuesday December 11, 2007 @03:23AM (#88174)
"1) Race, genetically, doesn't exist."

You are talking about race as if 'black' or 'white' were a race. This is confusing race with skin color. I have not done this and neither should you.

"2. Gladwell's point ..is that IQ testing is far too flawed to yield meaningful results"

I completely agree with Gladwell's point. My post above is satirising this thread and the discussion therein.

Re:What I.Q. doesn't tell you about race by ntoshev on Tuesday December 11, 2007 @07:06AM (#88206)
All concepts are fuzzy by nature, including the concept of race.

There are so many breeds of dogs, you can hardly find a common thing among them. This doesn't mean dogs don't exist.

Re:What I.Q. doesn't tell you about race by neilk on Tuesday December 11, 2007 @01:00PM (#88297)
Yes, but the human notion of "race" is just "people of a certain color". In dogs, this would group black yorkshire terriers and black labs together.

Furthermore, dog breeds are nothing like ordinary human populations. We simply don't have human populations that are subjected to the extreme selection pressures that we apply to dogs, which produce breeds with strong natural talents and lots of natural deficiencies that would kill them if they were turned loose in the wild. Chihuahuas versus Great Danes. People vary, and natural selection matters, but it's nothing like dog breeds.

Re:What I.Q. doesn't tell you about race by ntoshev on Wednesday December 12, 2007 @10:37AM (#88727)
Would you say that "Dog breeds, genetically, does not exist?"

Whatever you mean by that, it is pretty clear that it makes sense to talk about Caucasian race (or terriers) and use that concept, even if the manifested features vary.

Re:What I.Q. doesn't tell you about race by politrix on Wednesday December 12, 2007 @01:57PM (#88805)
No, it doesn't make sense to talk about Caucasian race. There isn't enough genetic difference between any human populations to divide humans into subspecies or races, unlike for example dogs. Humans have the least genetic variation of any mammalian species, so you can't make the dog comparison anyways.

Furthermore the name was created on fallacious premises to begin with. From the creator of the "Caucasian race" Johann Friedrich Blumenbach:

Caucasian variety - I have taken the name of this variety from Mount Caucasus, both because its neighborhood, and especially its southern slope, produces the most beautiful race of men, I mean the Georgian; and because all physiological reasons converge to this, that in that region, if anywhere, it seems we ought with the greatest probability to place the autochthones (birth place) of mankind.

Re:What I.Q. doesn't tell you about race by ntoshev on Thursday December 13, 2007 @02:36AM (#89043)
How much genetic difference is enough? It is obvious that there is a grouping of features beyond skin color. Where you put the line between races is somewhat arbitrary - and this is the same with all concepts, so it doesn't make sense to think about genetic difference (e.g. in Rwanda Hutu and Tutsi are considered different races, even though genetic difference is almost inexistent http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origins_of_Tutsi_and_Hutu). People have established this concepts because they are/were useful, and will continue to use them.
Re:What I.Q. doesn't tell you about race by pius on Tuesday December 11, 2007 @11:35AM (#88262)
Right, but no one here is arguing that humans don't exist . . .
Re:What I.Q. doesn't tell you about race by jan on Tuesday December 11, 2007 @01:52PM (#88330)
If by the Sami people you think "blue eyed and blonde", you are wrong. Not that there aren't blond and blue eyed Sami people, but the stereotypical Scandinavian is not a Sami.
Re:What I.Q. doesn't tell you about race by politrix on Wednesday December 12, 2007 @02:04PM (#88811)
Sami people were not included in the "caucasian race", at least originally.