H.R.4681 - Intelligence Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2015

Re:H.R.4681 - Intelligence Authorization Act for Fiscal Year... by frostmatthew on Friday December 12, 2014 @06:45PM (#8743382)

If you think it's because they wanted to make sure the people could easily overthrow the government if/when needed then you don't understand much about the founding fathers.

The founding fathers were terrified of the people. This is why they created the electoral college - they didn't trust the general population to decide such an important decision. [They thought they had designed the system such that the college would never (or at least rarely) produce a winner and Congress would select the President]. Only the House was intended to be based on popular vote, senators were selected by state legislatures up until the 17th amendment was ratified in 1913.

If the founders didn't trust the people to select their own President or senators do you really think they trusted them with the decision of overthrowing the government?

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:H.R.4681 - Intelligence Authorization Act for Fiscal Year... by refurb on Friday December 12, 2014 @11:13PM (#8744117)

"In framing a government which is to be administered by men over men, the great difficulty lies in this: you must first enable the government to control the governed; and in the next place oblige it to control itself. A dependence on the people is, no doubt, the primary control on the government; but experience has taught mankind the necessity of auxiliary precautions."

John Adams

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:H.R.4681 - Intelligence Authorization Act for Fiscal Year... by frostmatthew on Saturday December 13, 2014 @09:11AM (#8745198)

In the context of a discussion of the 2nd amendment's [intended] purpose and how those that wrote it felt toward the people I fail to see the relevance of a quote by someone who had no part in writing our Constitution. [John Adams was in Britain during the Constitutional Convention].

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:H.R.4681 - Intelligence Authorization Act for Fiscal Year... by refurb on Sunday December 14, 2014 @10:05PM (#8750500)

I can provide more quotes but i get the sense that nothing will convince you. The ability of citizens to maintain power over the government was a critical piece of how the US constitution was developed.

Hell, just read the opinions from DC v Heller.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:H.R.4681 - Intelligence Authorization Act for Fiscal Year... by frostmatthew on Monday December 15, 2014 @07:02PM (#8755233)

You're correct, quotes won't convince me. Actions (i.e. what they wrote into the Constitution) mean much more than anything they said.

And what they wrote was:

* a House of Representatives selected by the people

* a Senate selected by state legislatures

* two executives selected by Congress (with the remaining members of the executive branch at most needing consent from the portion of Congress not selected by the people)

* a judicial branch selected by the executive (again, requiring consent only from the Senate, who were not selected by the people)

So out of the entire government they gave the people the ability to select half of one branch. And while that one branch would select the President (and VP) it would have no voice in selecting the rest of the executive branch or any of the judicial. The ability to remove members of either the executive or judicial branch also went to the branch not selected by the people.

Sorry, but when I read the Constitution I don't see much "ability of citizens to maintain power over the government."

As for District of Columbia v. Heller the question was if the 2nd Amendment grants the right to bear arms for lawful purposes - violently overthrowing the government is most assuredly not lawful, regardless of who you want to quote while doing it.

[ Parent | on HN ]