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Re:US Senate Report on CIA Detention and Interrogation Program by rayiner on Tuesday December 09, 2014 @03:13PM (#8725375)
> You're being disingenuous here. It's like the difference between a police officer shooting an armed criminal on the street (which may be a matter of necessity, though recent examples highlight just how problematic such a standard can be) and beating them up in jail when they're already in a custodial situation and thus present no threat to the public.

In war, we justify things a lot more morally ambiguous than a police officer shooting an armed criminal that's an imminent threat. Workers at a munitions factory who are just carting things around? Those folks get killed in war in airstrikes that are totally consistent with international conventions. Is waterboarding Khalid Sheikh Mohammed worse than blowing up some sap who just showed up to work on the wrong day? I just find it ridiculous to play that line drawing exercise.

I agree 100% with the rest of your analysis, though. Whatever the moral case may be, we shouldn't engage in enhanced interrogation because it yields low-value or even misleading information at the cost of tremendous political capital.

Re:US Senate Report on CIA Detention and Interrogation Program by anigbrowl on Tuesday December 09, 2014 @04:30PM (#8725915)
That's true, and in many cases people who may be contributing to a country's war effort (thus making themselves legitimate targets) are there involuntarily as a result of having been drafted or otherwise pressed into service. Arguably the worst aspect of industrialized war is the inexorable military logic of attacking the enemy's productive rather than military capacity, as a natural extension of cutting an army's lines of supply.

I agree that trying to establish bright-line rules often seems a futile exercise because it's so easy to come up with ethical inconsistencies. I do have a theory about the moral calculus of conflict but it's inchoate and this comment isn't really the place for it. To sketch the outline, though, the severity of a given outcome in a conflict can be mitigated by the degree of risk involved in bringing it about; so while the imposition involved in sleep deprivation or keeping someone cold is mild compared to someone being horribly maimed by a piece of shrapnel, it's the massive prior asymmetry between captor and prisoner that's problematic in the case of torture. Of course, you could argue that this asymmetry is also strong where only one side in a conflict has an air force or where one side is using remote-controlled military assets like drones, whose 'pilots' experience no physical risks whatsoever. This is going to become a huge problem within a few short years with robotic infantry assets - as soon as they're 'good enough' to deploy effectively there will be huge pressure to do so, even if they are just slightly extending forward positions over a short distance.

Re:US Senate Report on CIA Detention and Interrogation Program by lotsofmangos on Tuesday December 09, 2014 @04:28PM (#8725902)
Is waterboarding Khalid Sheikh Mohammed worse than blowing up some sap who just showed up to work on the wrong day?

Yes. Waterboarding Khalid Sheikh Mohammed is viewed by the vast majority to be morally far much worse than bombing a munitions factory. That is why doing it costs the tremendous political capital.

Re:US Senate Report on CIA Detention and Interrogation Program by rayiner on Tuesday December 09, 2014 @05:06PM (#8726150)
I dunno about that, at least in the U.S.: http://mic.com/articles/106084/two-charts-show-why-the-cia-s....
Re:US Senate Report on CIA Detention and Interrogation Program by lotsofmangos on Tuesday December 09, 2014 @09:56PM (#8727438)
Now ask the same group if there are ever circumstances where it can be acceptable to bomb an ammunition factory. Can you imagine that even being up for debate?
Re:US Senate Report on CIA Detention and Interrogation Program by foobarqux on Tuesday December 09, 2014 @07:13PM (#8726748)
> Those folks get killed in war in airstrikes that are totally consistent with international conventions.

The deaths caused by the aggressor of a war are not consistent with international conventions, they are, in the words of a judge in at the Nuremberg tribunals, the consequence of the ultimate war crime.