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Re:Hard-won lessons about money and investing by steven2012 on Sunday November 30, 2014 @01:26AM (#8676177)
I'm not talking bear markets, I truly believe there will be 50%+ drops every 7-10 years, which is something that you wouldn't expect pre-2000, except 1987. I think the stock market is a battle ground for amoral participants who are willing to break the stock markets in order to make as much money as they can, and the NYSE and NASDAQ don't seem to care.
Re:Hard-won lessons about money and investing by JoachimSchipper on Sunday November 30, 2014 @01:52AM (#8676222)
So buy shorts.
Re:Hard-won lessons about money and investing by steven2012 on Sunday November 30, 2014 @02:28AM (#8676285)
I will when the time is right. Right now, I'm long.
Re:Hard-won lessons about money and investing by Matt_Cutts on Sunday November 30, 2014 @03:19AM (#8676349)
I agree with your posts except for a couple things: - Most asset managers will try to rip you off, but Vanguard's culture and alignment with your interests makes them a different/better company than anyone else I know of. - I don't know if you were joking when talking about buying shorts, but it's really hard to time the stock market.
Re:Hard-won lessons about money and investing by JoachimSchipper on Sunday November 30, 2014 @06:02AM (#8676546)
Actually, if there really is a 50% drop every 7-10 years, I'd be very surprised if you couldn't make a killing buying cheap, far-out-of-the-money shorts.
Re:Hard-won lessons about money and investing by beagle3 on Sunday November 30, 2014 @04:11PM (#8678110)
You can't make a killing that way.

In general, the market can stay irrational much longer than you can stay solvent. To win, you basically need more information (in the shannon information theoretic sense) than the market, on average, does. And when you actually compute it, "50% drop every 7-10 years, and not even with 95% certainty" is negligible information.

Shorts and short equivalents are either effectively marked to market (e.g. futures are marked daily, short-sales are effectively as well through margin adjustment) or have a limited time horizon (liquid puts are 3m-6m, illiquid ones can be a couple of years, but with a ridiculously large premium).

Let's say a drop of 50% happens over 1 year - then your 3m/6m "50% drop" puts don't actually net you any money, because it only drops 30% in 6 months. But they keep costing you all the time.

And if you use futures/forwards/short-sales, you might (and often will) get margin called and squeezed on earlier appreciations. Unless you have a really large margin, which -- when you actually earn some money, if ever -- significantly reduces your earning in percentage terms.