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Re:Starfish are dissolving up and down the West Coast by jmnicolas on Monday November 24, 2014 @06:18AM (#8651883)
So what ? He didn't say man made climate change, just climate change.

You don't have to be a genius to see the climate is changing.

Now for the root cause, I don't know, but human pollution is certainly not helping.

Re:Starfish are dissolving up and down the West Coast by mavhc on Monday November 24, 2014 @06:24AM (#8651894)
It's pretty simple really, co2 causes heating, co2 is increasing, increase in co2 is from fossil fuels.
Re:Starfish are dissolving up and down the West Coast by Ntrails on Monday November 24, 2014 @06:53AM (#8651973)
Except CO2 from fossil fuels aren't even the largest contribution to "greenhouse gasses" that can be attributed to humans.

Climate change is inevitable. It's happened before many times in the history of the earth, and will happen again. The behaviour of man and it's resulting emissions are largely agreed to have been impactful on the rate of change.

However, I've seen statisticians and scientists poking rational holes in research (and pilloried for daring to do so by the green lobby). So I default to my standard position, which is that both sides are a bit wrong and the truth is somewhere in the middle. I'll stay here for a while, it's comfortable.

Re:Starfish are dissolving up and down the West Coast by jdhendrickson on Monday November 24, 2014 @09:06AM (#8652376)
I've linked a short well made video below which addresses your arguments. TLDW Just because man's emissions are relatively small in comparison to the over all natural emissions does not mean they don't affect things.

I implore you, (as you seem a reasonable fellow who values science) to give it a watch and see if you still feel the same way. I'm willing to watch or read any counter argument you care to link if you will do me the same courtesy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWXoRSIxyIU

Re:Starfish are dissolving up and down the West Coast by Ntrails on Tuesday November 25, 2014 @04:16AM (#8656971)
Youtube is blocked at work, but my understanding was that the mass farming of cattle and the methane they produce was as impactful as the CO2 attributed to fossil fuels in terms of increasing greenhouse gasses.

Some googling suggests I am wrong on that though as they claim agriculture is responsible for just 18% of the greenhouse gas (of course one gets wildly differing values depending where you look).

My comment wasn't meant to imply that fossil fuels/CO2 isn't relevant, but it's not the whole story. I was clearly wrong as to the extent of agricultural impact :)

As for the rest of it, I don't deny climate change. I don't pretend that humans have no impact the rate of change. I get uncomfortable with the way it's a "cause", by the way a statistician who questions methodology is attacked not answered etc etc. It makes me doubt the numbers, not the underlying principles (which are experimentally demonstrable)

Re:Starfish are dissolving up and down the West Coast by happyscrappy on Monday November 24, 2014 @09:48AM (#8652575)
Can we please not have arguments via video? Surely if the arguments are good there is a write up somewhere.
Re:Starfish are dissolving up and down the West Coast by kaybe on Monday November 24, 2014 @11:32AM (#8653121)
Here is a very good presentation of CO2 measurement values:

http://www.esrl.noaa.gov/gmd/ccgg/trends/

I'm still looking for a non-movie version that shows the whole curve we have (not just the direct measurements).

edit: forgot the link

Some more good writeups: https://www.skepticalscience.com/argument.php http://climatechange.procon.org/

If anyone has questions - I study this stuff.

Re:Starfish are dissolving up and down the West Coast by lotsofmangos on Monday November 24, 2014 @10:03AM (#8652645)
a - why not?

b - click the "show more" button. The text underneath the video is littered with references.

Re:Starfish are dissolving up and down the West Coast by mavhc on Monday November 24, 2014 @04:45PM (#8654916)
Seems to be the largest to me, most increased radiative forcing is due to co2, and most co2 is from the energy sector, which is mostly fossil fuels. Which matches up with the change the isotope ratios.
Re:Starfish are dissolving up and down the West Coast by gd1 on Monday November 24, 2014 @06:26AM (#8651904)
So what? That's not science, that's religion. That is 'god of the gaps' stuff. I suppose we can add it to the list (http://www.numberwatch.co.uk/warmlist.htm). Maybe the story was interesting, maybe it was important, whatever. I'm not reading it on principle if they're going to cross themselves and pray to their green god mid way through. There are a number of people like myself who would actually care about ecology/environmental issues if they weren't crowded out by absolute wank like that.
Re:Starfish are dissolving up and down the West Coast by terhechte on Monday November 24, 2014 @06:48AM (#8651960)
How is it Religion to have a theory that you're trying to prove? You seem to lack a basic understanding of the scientific method. Her theory is: "climate change is involved". And she is searching for evidence, that is, she is trying to prove it. She doesn't even claim that climate change is involved, it is clearly marked as her opinion. Just like Einstein had the theory that time had to be relative, and then set out to proof it.

Your reaction seems to be anger-fueled climate change hate that stops you from thinking in a rational, open minded way.

Edit: Gender Error

Re:Starfish are dissolving up and down the West Coast by bjz_ on Monday November 24, 2014 @08:42AM (#8652291)
> How is it Religion to have a theory that you're trying to prove? [..] Einstein had the theory that time had to be relative, and then set out to proof it.

Science is all about coming up with a range of different models that attempt to explain the universe, and then tying our damnedest to disprove as many of them as we can. That way we can be left with the best possible explanations for the phenomena that we observe based on our current level of understanding.

We have tried our hardest to bring down the theory of anthropogenic climate change, probably so more than any other theory in the history of science. But every time we try we have failed[0]. We cannot be certain about anything, but if we keep pushing beyond reasonable doubt then we go beyond skepticism and into denial.

[0]: http://www.skepticalscience.com/argument.php

Re:Starfish are dissolving up and down the West Coast by waterlesscloud on Monday November 24, 2014 @06:56AM (#8651980)
Dr. Lesanna Lahner appears to be a "she". :-)

(corrected typo)

Re:Starfish are dissolving up and down the West Coast by icebraining on Monday November 24, 2014 @07:04AM (#8652005)
*Lesanna
Re:Starfish are dissolving up and down the West Coast by gd1 on Monday November 24, 2014 @07:05AM (#8652011)
She doesn't posit a plausible mechanism for her theory, does she? It's just the fallback position, "it must be climate change", just a small upgrade from "it must be god". Click on that list I linked above (and they stopped adding to that years ago!).
Re:Starfish are dissolving up and down the West Coast by lotsofmangos on Monday November 24, 2014 @10:14AM (#8652705)
The science of evolution didn't discover a plausible mechanism until the discovery of DNA.

Besides, the sea is getting measurably hotter and more acidic and from the article, which you say you did not read, some of the starfish recovered when put in cooler water:

The virus probably isn’t the whole story, both Lahner and Raimondi say. Lahner took sea stars that were disintegrating at 54 degrees Fahrenheit and cooled their water to 50 degrees. "They all went from falling apart, having their viscera hanging out, to pretty healthy in a day," she says. "I came back, and they were like, ready for the cover of Vogue. They were perfect." So temperature may play a role in the animals’ ability to recover as well.

The north Pacific basin, on average, has warmed by about half a degree centigrade from 1955 to 2013, according to data from the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration. "That’s kind of a scary number," says Andy Allegra, a NOAA data specialist. "It’s very large."

Re:Starfish are dissolving up and down the West Coast by gd1 on Monday November 24, 2014 @10:42AM (#8652849)
I'm sorry, I can't really continue discussion with you since I've already spent 3 months worth of karma on this thread. My apologies.
Re:Starfish are dissolving up and down the West Coast by fit2rule on Monday November 24, 2014 @07:53AM (#8652134)
We didn't know how to get to the moon, but we knew we could get there if we tried. That's religion. We got to the moon, by doing the things we needed to do to get to the moon: thats Science. You can't have one without the other.