Some stuff from 2014, maybe that will help you to see that Microsoft has definitely not 'gotten over it':
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8596869
And that's just a very limited list.
I'm not sure Best Buy reflects that poorly on Microsoft.
>"They reportedly have raised over $5.5 billion from many large companies including Microsoft, Intel, Sony, Nokia, Apple, Google, Yahoo, American Express, Adobe, SAP, Nvidia, and eBay, plus investment firms such as Stanford, Hewlett Foundation, Mayo Clinic, and Charles River Ventures."
Again, doesn't reflect that poorly on Microsoft.
>Munich reverses course, may ditch Linux for Microsoft
Is a software sales company supposed to not sell software? That's what they do. How does that reflect poorly on them?
You're hating a corporation for doing what corporations do, and hating a tech company for things tech companies do. Like I said, it's time to get over it or just shut the hell up and ignore it. I understand that your religion tells you to hate Microsoft. But some of us don't subscribe to that line of thinking, and you're ruining it for the rest of us by controlling conversations and shutting down discussions.
Best buy didn't enter into it, you probably did not fully read the link. This was about Romania, not about the USA.
> Again, doesn't reflect that poorly on Microsoft.
It does, because IV is best described as a patent troll in a nice suit.
> Is a software sales company supposed to not sell software? That's what they do. How does that reflect poorly on them?
Because they struck a deal to relocate their headquarters to Munich if and only if the government would ditch linux.
I don't have any religion, I'm just against companies that engage in illegal acts. That 'some of us don't subscribe to that line of thinking' is a pity, I'm not shutting anybody down, nor am I controlling the conversation. In fact, I'm happy that MS open sourced this code.
Ah ok, that explains it. 'Nutjob', 'Asshole', when arguments fail resort to namecalling. I've got nothing against you, but I have my personal reasons for disliking Microsoft, I don't know what it is you want from me but you seem to be taking this a bit too personal. Try not to associate too much with your favorite brands, lest someone would start to think you have a stake in this.
Note that I'm here with my full name and rep out in the open whereas you're the HN equivalent of an anonymous coward.
Pot, Kettle, etc.
If you don't try to follow Microsoft news, you might not see how frustrating it is. Everywhere on the Internet (save for Paul Thurrott's site) shuts down any Microsoft news immediately, drowning out any legitimate conversation with complaints about how evil Microsoft is. And if you challenge that by saying they work just like any other company, the troll says "yeah but I hate them all" followed with "this article is about Microsoft, not about Apple". Yet only a certain few companies manage to draw such ridiculous levels of trolling. Hell, look at the Amazon Echo announcement the other day. Two articles made it to the front page, and both were filled with "but NSA lol it's a trap".
If I'm an asshole, it's only because I bothered to call out jacquesm. I'm not going to apologize for anything I said. jacquesm is trolling this article with deception and bad intentions, ignoring any arguments they don't like or doesn't fit their worldview, and most certainly is not civilly defending their criticisms.
I really cannot stress my frustration enough, and I see it in others as well. If you don't use Microsoft products, it's easy to think you're just having fun and not doing anything wrong when you come into a thread and begin a discussion about everything Microsoft has done wrong. For some reason, Microsoft is one of the few companies where this is socially acceptable on the Internet, and people like me are shut down or, like you are doing, called a shill. I'm not loyal to Microsoft. I'm running Windows 7 in a RHEL 6 VM, using Firefox to post this. But guess what, my livelihood depends partially on supporting Microsoft products, so I follow them in the news.
All I want to do is make the point that coming into Microsoft threads and saying "Microsoft is evil" is not being a good citizen, not being productive, and not being civil. And if that's all you have to contribute to the thread, you're being an asshole.
I think it's hilarious that jacquesm can get away with focusing on the word "asshole" in my last comment, though, and ignoring the one point I've been repeating since the beginning:
Ignore it. Just move on. Go comment on articles that are interesting to you, involving companies or people or organizations you don't despise. Just stop fucking dragging down legitimate discussions with the line "they're evil", and stop pulling the defense "I just don't like evil companies, that's all". You're not innocent.
Also, name a player that isn't equally or more abusive? If you mention Apple, Google, or Amazon, I'm going to disagree.
That's fine by me. I think they should really wise up and start to play nice. If IBM could do it then Microsoft can too.
> Also, name a player that isn't equally or more abusive?
Why, does that excuse them?
> If you mention Apple, Google, or Amazon, I'm going to disagree.
I would agree with that myself, so I won't be naming those.
When a behavior gets institutionalized, it is likely to repeat more often than not. It requires exceptional evidence and time before for trust to be regained.
A person rises up in a typical institution by following and embracing its institutional patterns. When they have their back to the wall how unlikely are they to fall back on their old patterns, heck they neednt even have their back on the wall. Now if someone gets get screwed over by them, no ones more to blame than themselves. As they say, "fool me once ..."
It is entirely possible that someone else does similar damage to your business in an unethical way, but if one goes to a repeat offender and gets treated that way, the shame is on him / her.
And that's fine. I just don't want to hear about it. You're mad. We get it. You don't have to like them, all we ask is that you stop bringing it up in every thread. See also: bringing up Google Reader in every Google thread or bringing up the NSA in every thread about cloud providers. We know bad things happened. But you're still dragging the thread off-topic.
... and therefore people should curtail their speech ? stop talking about relevant things that transpired ? May be you are a tad shaky on the concept, lets burn all the existing history books and those about to be written.
> They've had exceptional evidence and time
That is your opinion. The way it works is that you dont get to decide for someone else who has lost the trust whether MS has done enough, its the prerogative of the person who has lost the trust. The waiter at a restaurant chews on the serving and says this food is perfectly fine and you must push it down your throat isnt a very solid defense of the food. The buck stops at the desk of the restaurant patron.
And who said 'hate' ? That seems like your construct. Its a question of choice, should one buy into the MS ecosystem or not. Every person makes his / her own choice. I for one am now more willing to invest time in learning F#, but quite queasy about being dependent on that ecosystem financially.
> But you're still dragging the thread off-topic.
Oh really ? what exactly was off-topic in the thread and why. As I said, perhaps you are a little slow on the concepts.
> the bad stuff they did 20 years ago
False, and this has been amply demonstrated on this thread. But the time is not relevant. What is the relevant is the confidence / assurance that it wont happen again and the wisdom or the lack of patronizing a repeat offender. Why did those bad things happen, and why wont those things happen again. Whoever wants to use their products need answers that satisfy them. Different consumers will have different standards.
Perhaps it is good teachable moment for corporations. Deliberate and repeat actions can continue to affect them long after. If those in charge were so concerned, they perhaps should have thought it through. After all you make the bed you lie in.
A parting thought, those bad shit, they were far from an impetuous one off.
In fact (again IMHO) your description is laughable if it is intended to accurately represent Microsofts's efforts to reconcile with users it has wronged in the past.
Microsoft simply hasn't put in anything like that kind of effort to instill confindence in their good will toward their customers. Obviously srean probably agrees with me on that point.
> So please just go away.
Telling srean to go away is just not in the spirit of this site. He/she (I honestly don't know which it is) has been reasonably civil, and did not attack you personally. You simply don't agree with him/her. He/she has contributed reasonably to the conversation, so you have no valid reason to ask him/her to stop commenting on the topic.
And lastly (again, IMHO) your comments appear to be much more troll-like than his/hers. You have been much less civil in this conversation than srean.
And I'm not going to ask you to "go away" :-D
(edited for a typo and a missed "/her" )
So no, at this point it is on the Microsoft haters to get over it. And if you can't get over it, then just ignore it. As someone who works partially in the Windows world and thus is interested in Microsoft news, I'm tired of Microsoft news being flagged off the front page constantly. I'm tired of seeing something about Windows and the comments being filled with people hating on Windows 8 for bullshit rather than good discussion about the article. I'm tired of seeing great news like this and have people say "yeah but in 1994 they...". That was 20 years ago. Fucking get over it. Microsoft sure has.
If Microsoft is still doing things wrong, it's completely overshadowed by their detractors constantly shutting down legitimate discussions with their insane rambling about the past.