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Re:Ask YC: Any network gurus want a paid holiday? by tibbon on Thursday October 01, 2009 @09:50AM (#854879)
Makes me wish for once I'd actually finished those Cisco networking classes.
Re:Ask YC: Any network gurus want a paid holiday? by brk on Thursday October 01, 2009 @10:23AM (#854950)
I grok your point, but will make a mild counter argument.

Networking classes alone would not give you any value in this case. In fact, they'd give you negative value because the real world never works like the text book, and offering advice that you yourself have not applied in practice is bad form.

I never finished Cisco networking classes either. I never really started them in the first place. I did however help develop the training and certification program for the Ascend/Lucent Certified Technical Expert course. That was after I already had about 8 years of daily hands-on LAN and WAN design and administration (late 90's timeframe). I was able to do that because I had been in the bowels of everything from a local travel agent office network to some of the worlds largest datacenters and NAPs (at the time).

Don't wish for network classes, instead spend some time with actual equipment, a copy of Wireshark, and some time on network admin forums/groups. Go work for a local ISP for even 6 months. You'll learn more about LAN/WAN networking in that time than in most formal network courses.

Re:Ask YC: Any network gurus want a paid holiday? by jeremymcanally on Thursday October 01, 2009 @03:22PM (#855614)
If you take the official network classes from Cisco then you do spend a lot more time on real equipment than buried in a book.

// finished 4 semesters of CCNA instruction only to be too poor to afford the testing. :)

Re:Ask YC: Any network gurus want a paid holiday? by brk on Thursday October 01, 2009 @05:15PM (#855843)
And where does that equipment live?

Unless things have changed since I last looked, it's all labware. Sure, that's better than pure textbook, but still a far cry from reality.

Re:Ask YC: Any network gurus want a paid holiday? by jeremymcanally on Friday October 02, 2009 @08:10PM (#858286)
We had a full network setup where I took them, with a fair amount of real hardware (of varying manufacturers even [a few AdTran boxes]). Perhaps that is a rarity, I'm not sure. :)
Re:Ask YC: Any network gurus want a paid holiday? by sree_nair on Thursday October 01, 2009 @11:49AM (#855155)
Appreciate your reply. But wasn't that too heavy for just a jovial comment?.

so, you ready for the vacation?. :)

Re:Ask YC: Any network gurus want a paid holiday? by brk on Thursday October 01, 2009 @12:11PM (#855198)
I didn't mean for it to be so heavy ;)

Part of the reason for my response is a bit of a personal nit, I guess. I come across a lot of talented and capable people who seem to feel that they need someone else to verify their skills. Schools and training programs and certs are all well and good for some people, but those things take time and money. Time and money that might be better invested on self-learning, or taking a mid-level job at a salary less than you are worth but such that your net income is still ahead of where you would be if you were going to school, and using that job as a learning/advancement opportunity. I'll take a guy with a GED and 4 years on an ISP tech support position before a guy with a Bachelors, 3 Cisco certs and no work experience in many cases. (YMMV).

The higher-ed/certification thing is so ingrained in so many people that I believe people do not often stop to consider the alternatives frequently enough. OR, they are led to believe that these degrees and certs are universally respected and the gate keepers to better career opportunities. This is of course not true.

My main point is that it's never too late to learn something new, and depending on how you personally develop new skills, the best approach may be non-traditional.

Re:Ask YC: Any network gurus want a paid holiday? by lil_cain on Thursday October 01, 2009 @07:01PM (#856033)
When you're the guy with a B.A. and work experience in ISP call centres, Cisco certs are a handy way of not getting your C.V. thrown out by H.R. drones :-)

(Not that I got any in the end, someone who didn't care employed me first. But they make sense for a reasonably large group of people)

Re:Ask YC: Any network gurus want a paid holiday? by thaumaturgy on Thursday October 01, 2009 @12:26PM (#855235)
Heh!

Funny story: so, my junior tech, who at some point had taken some Cisco course or another, had been tasked with finishing up some gigabit connections between two buildings.

In the main building, the network cabinet has two unmanaged Netgear Prosafe switches; one 10/100, and one gigabit.

Without thinking about it, he plugged some of the cables for the other building into one switch, and some into the other.

Both sets of cables ran to the other building, and then into another Netgear unmanaged switch. (There were multiple cables primarily for redundancy.)

So naturally the next day the network just starts going wild. He's tied a gigabit-size loop into the network, and the unmanaged switches are helpfully forwarding traffic back and forth to eachother, even though they're really not supposed to do that.

He's totally stumped. I get called in, sit down for a few minutes with tcpdump, and watch the traffic for a few devices on the network. Didn't take very long before I had a rough idea of what had happened, opened up the network cabinet, and found the misplaced connections.

So much for Cisco courses!

Re:Ask YC: Any network gurus want a paid holiday? by jsz0 on Thursday October 01, 2009 @10:34AM (#854965)
I've taken a bunch of Cisco classes but never actually finished them and took the tests. My network of ~16,000 devices is at a pretty steady 99.99 uptime rate for the last 2 years. A big upward curve since taking over from my predecessor who was certified in half a dozen different ways.
Re:Ask YC: Any network gurus want a paid holiday? by borism on Thursday October 01, 2009 @11:40AM (#855125)
yeah. and besides switches/PBX I don't see where would one need Cisco anyway.
Re:Ask YC: Any network gurus want a paid holiday? by lil_cain on Thursday October 01, 2009 @07:02PM (#856035)
"One neck to choke" is a powerful reason to deal with more than their switches.
Re:Ask YC: Any network gurus want a paid holiday? by erikwiffin on Thursday October 01, 2009 @09:51AM (#854883)
ditto, so very ditto
Re:Ask YC: Any network gurus want a paid holiday? by mikeytown2 on Thursday October 01, 2009 @03:53PM (#855679)
CCIE is the only cert that is a sure thing. If someone has it you know they're good.
Re:Ask YC: Any network gurus want a paid holiday? by mikeytown2 on Friday October 02, 2009 @12:51AM (#856465)
Anyone care to let me know why I got down-voted? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cisco_Career_Certifications#Cis...