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Re:Outsourced Jobs Are No Longer Cheap, So They're Being Aut... by AnthonyMouse on Thursday October 09, 2014 @12:40PM (#8433491)
> If BI increases demand for consumption (as most of it's proponents claim it will), then the price of consumption will increase - hence, inflation.

This is a very bizarre argument against BI. You can clearly see how silly it is by applying it to reducing the unemployment rate (or for that matter anything that provides income to the poor) -- if more people have income then consumption will increase and cause inflation.

The reason the argument is silly is that it's way more complicated than that. Even the assumption that BI will cause increased consumption is based on other assumptions about what people want at different income levels. It could be that members of the lower middle class are hungry for an opportunity to start a business and will use the money to invest rather than consume. It depends entirely on the contours of the economy at a specific time and place and is constantly in flux. Investment vs. consumption is also a false dichotomy, because investments just turn into the consumption of the entity selling the investment, and businesses obtain capital by selling products as well as by soliciting investors. So it's really the difference between consumption of consumer goods and services like food and entertainment vs. of business goods and services like commercial equipment and marketing services, and even that distinction is as clear as mud.

On top of that, whether an increase in demand causes an increase in price depends on the supply of the goods in question. There are many products for which this relationship is negative. Where there is no practical limit on the number of units suppliers can produce, having more demand will give sellers more units over which to amortize fixed costs and can thereby reduce the unit price.

This makes the statement "basic income will cause inflation" completely meaningless. What it will do is cause the price of some goods and services to increase and others to decrease, much as any economic change will do. Whether this change will on net cause prices to increase more than decrease (and to what degree) depends entirely on the contours of the economy and on which specific goods and services you're measuring.

But perhaps most importantly, even assuming it would cause inflation in a particular economy, the amount of inflation is necessarily less than the amount of the basic income because of the existence (and likely preponderance) of products with less than perfectly inelastic supply.

Re:Outsourced Jobs Are No Longer Cheap, So They're Being Aut... by yummyfajitas on Thursday October 09, 2014 @01:06PM (#8433647)
You can clearly see how silly it is by applying it to reducing the unemployment rate...

Reducing unemployment will increase demand but will also increase supply. So no.

It could be that members of the lower middle class are hungry for an opportunity to start a business and will us the money to invest rather than consume...There are many products for which this relationship is negative. Where there is no practical limit on the number of units suppliers can produce...

So if I'm understanding you right, BI will work because the rich have a higher marginal propensity for consumption, Giffen goods are common and scarcity isn't real? Ok.

It depends entirely on the contours of the economy at a specific time and place and is constantly in flux.

If that is the case then the usefulness of a BI will also constantly be in flux. I guess your opinions on the topic are also constantly in flux? If not, why not?

Re:Outsourced Jobs Are No Longer Cheap, So They're Being Aut... by AnthonyMouse on Thursday October 09, 2014 @01:48PM (#8433962)
> Reducing unemployment will increase demand but will also increase supply. So no.

That's just the same fallacy. Why can you assume the thing the employee is producing won't have less price elasticity than the thing the employee buys with the income, but I can't?

> the rich have a higher marginal propensity for consumption

Your argument is that the rich have a much lower marginal propensity for consumption, enough to really matter. And that may even be true if you're talking about a matter of $2, which a poor person would almost certainly use to buy lunch or the like but would have no effect on a rich person's level of consumption. But if you give a poor person $20,000, now you have to ask whether they aren't going use it to attend college or start a business. It's an entirely different dynamic.

Also, if the money is raised using a consumption tax then it can inherently never come from someone making an investment regardless of their income level, which kind of destroys your entire argument, since it is based on where the money comes from as much as who gets it.

> Giffen goods are common

Nobody is even talking about Giffen goods, that's the demand side. And goods whose total cost is dominated by fixed costs are extremely common.

> scarcity isn't real

Scarcity is often not relevant. The market price of a computer or pharmaceuticals or recorded music is completely divorced from the cost of the scarce materials necessary to manufacture it. There is no realistic volume of DVDs that could be produced that would materially affect the market price of plastic.

> If that is the case then the usefulness of a BI will also constantly be in flux.

Whether and to what degree it causes inflation or deflation would constantly be in flux. That it might possibly cause a small amount of inflation is hardly a condemnation, and it is unlikely to cause a large amount of inflation for the reasons I've already mentioned -- its tendency to increase prices in some products is offset by its tendency to reduce prices in other products.