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Re:William Binney Explains Snowden Docs by rdtsc on Tuesday September 30, 2014 @11:49PM (#8392719)
Excellent article.

Binney, after all these years, finally has the some evidence to support the claims he was making all along.

I remember reading about him and thinking how this is a bit too conspiratorial. Probably a disgruntled[+] employee making stuff up knowing it will never be confirmed or denied. I knew at the time about Constitutional protections and all that, and thought well surely someone up there on top wouldn't allow something this blatant to happen.

It wouldn't be surprising if Snowden studied Binney and learned the lesson of how "all they had to do is come and tell their superiors and there was no need for all the public disclosures" is a bunch of bullshit. Binney did that. Also Binney didn't get any proof or documents with him. Can't help but think Snowden learned from that too.

Wonder what is the lesson to be learned by next Snowden who is probably already planning his actions. Try to stay completely anonymous? Fly directly to Brazil for a warmer weather?

Maybe the ultimate lesson we learned then and now is how little people care. NSA learned that too and I wouldn't be surprised if instead of dialing down the level of these programs they will crank it up. Why wouldn't they? They have clear tested proof that the public doesn't mind that much. No need to play the Constitutional farce any more.

[+] It would seem Binney was a bit disgruntled since his system was re-purposed (stolen) and he was pushed to the side. There was an interview where he talks how after 9/11 NSA was on a lockdown, and he snuck in to work and saw all this hardware everywhere. And eventually found out it was to be used for his re-purposed system. But without him on onboard. It was handed over to contractors.

Re:William Binney Explains Snowden Docs by scrollaway on Wednesday October 01, 2014 @12:38AM (#8392851)
> I remember reading about him and thinking how this is a bit too conspiratorial.

I see this a lot and I honestly wonder. A lot of us knew-without-proof what was going on... suspected strongly may be better wording. We didn't talk about it because either people wouldn't be interested without proof, or we assumed other people knew just as much.

What is it that in fact makes the subject so far-fetched and a topic treated the same way as the "the president is a man-reptile from neptune" kind of conspiracies?

I am really trying to figure out what, in my education (or what little I had of it seeing as I left high school fairly early), caused me to see things in a less "that's crazy talk" way and more as a "it's technically possible and they have endless resources, why wouldn't they do it" subject while other people dismissed it (and some still do).

Re:William Binney Explains Snowden Docs by logn on Wednesday October 01, 2014 @02:53AM (#8393160)
I think it comes down to imagination and confidence. Some people cannot construct scenarios in their mind and analyze their likeliness. And others just want to be accepted and part of the mainstream.

There are also people who simply aren't interested in learning about topics yet feel free to blast their opinions about them. Kind of like how I might say 'country music sucks' when actually there's a lot of good country music but I haven't tried very hard to find the artists I like.

Re:William Binney Explains Snowden Docs by rhizome on Wednesday October 01, 2014 @02:40AM (#8393138)
What is it that in fact makes the subject so far-fetched and a topic treated the same way as the "the president is a man-reptile from neptune" kind of conspiracies?

Describing something as a conspiracy is to spin it as something far-fetched. This isn't to say that there aren't far-fetched conspiracy theories, but some yet-to-be proven conclusions have enough data as to be near-fetched. After all, math and the sciences are full of conjectures.

Re:William Binney Explains Snowden Docs by xnull2guest on Wednesday October 01, 2014 @12:25AM (#8392818)
> Maybe the ultimate lesson we learned then and now is how little people care.

People are woefully uninformed on the NSA and surveillance. If you ask a random layperson what Snowden disclosed nine times out of ten you'll get "that phone program thing, right?"

The major media outlets made the issue about PRISM and The Congress ran with that free lunch to pass ineffective measures on part of one program while ignoring the bulk of the revelations.

The Snowden documents passed through America without being digested at all. The media made the story about the Snowden character and political bickering. The Merkle episode was covered like it was a report on bickering children (German chancellor upset at US, Obama to meet with her) rather than piecing together how having that data during the Eurozone crisis likely affected policy decisions.

I'd call this trick a feat if it weren't such a repeat act.

I honestly do believe people care. I just don't think people understand what was disclosed. Even tech-savvy and otherwise well informed friends are surprised when I send or summarize the lesser covered material.

Re:William Binney Explains Snowden Docs by logn on Wednesday October 01, 2014 @02:41AM (#8393140)
I don't think the public will get it until a major Hollywood movie presents a compelling narrative. People understand Minority Report. People don't understand Powerpoints released sporadically over multiple years.

Also part of the problem is that the Snowden leaks, while full of technical detail, are devoid of almost all human elements.

The other concerning element of all this is that even people who understand all of this fully, they still support it. So in some respects, the public is fully complicit. Maybe a similar dynamic to how whites accepted slavery.

Re:William Binney Explains Snowden Docs by xnull2guest on Wednesday October 01, 2014 @03:37AM (#8393241)
I would be partial to this thesis, but I find it to be more a failing of the media.

From Wikipedia: "In a democratic society, however, access to free information plays a central role in creating a system of checks and balance, and in distributing power equally amongst governments, businesses, individuals, and other social entities. Access to verifiable information gathered by independent media sources, which adhere to journalistic standards, can also be of service to ordinary citizens, by empowering them with the tools they need in order to participate in the political process."

People payed attention to the news during the Snowden disclosures. But it wasn't news worth paying attention to.

There's a good history of media partnerships with TLA agencies - I'm just going to leave some links. I'm willing to write about it but this time of night I'm not prepared to spend the time curating something comprehensive.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Mockingbird

[2] http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/20/us/20generals.html

[3] http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/another-runaway-ge...

[4] https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2014/09/04/former-l-times...

[5] http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/02/16/945768/-UPDATED-The...

[6] https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2014/07/14/manipulating-o...

[7] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astroturfing#Business_and_adop...

[8] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HBGary#Astroturfing

[9] http://www.globalissues.org/article/461/media-reporting-jour...

[10] http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/04...

[11] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Musab_al-Zarqawi

[12] http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2006/03/heroes-error?pag...

Re:William Binney Explains Snowden Docs by treerock on Wednesday October 01, 2014 @06:39AM (#8393660)
They probably need to present how the data can and is actually being used in a way that hits people personally.

The UK phone hacking 'scandal'[1] showed that the public doesn't really care that much about phones being hacked if it ends up revealing corruption or crime or celebrity gossip. The real big deal was when it came out that they were accessing the voicemail of a missing 13 year old girl, who was later found dead.

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/News_International_phone_hacki...