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Re:Is Scala really more complicated than Java? by silentbicycle on Saturday September 19, 2009 @01:12PM (#832140)
Using something that requires you to understand a couple big ideas ("formal theory", as you put it) is usually a lot less complex than using something that doesn't, but requires you to remember a bunch of inconsistencies and exceptions to rules. It's easier to remember concepts than details.

I haven't used Scala, but it's certainly a more general rule. Prolog or Make, for example, are damn simple once you understand the model they're based on - they're just fundamentally different from (say) Java or Python. Make has a reputation of being weird and complicated* because people assume its complexity adds to whatever model they're familiar with, but actually it replaces it entirely. Once you understand make's underlying model, everything you need to know to use it would comfortably fit on one page.

* Except the GNU make extensions added to bend gmake into a more 'conventional' tool / make it work with the autotools. The original, non-GNU make is vastly simpler. (Same with gawk vs. regular awk.)

Re:Is Scala really more complicated than Java? by yosh on Saturday September 19, 2009 @04:32PM (#832305)
"make it work with the autotools" ? The auto* family of tools have a ton of complexity to make things work with non-GNU tools. Automake would be vastly simpler if there wasn't the specific design goal of working with non-GNU make.
Re:Is Scala really more complicated than Java? by silentbicycle on Saturday September 19, 2009 @06:14PM (#832385)
That didn't come out right - I meant that sometimes people get the impression that make is incredibly complex because they look at makefiles generated by the autotools. Those makefiles are typically very different from hand-written ones.
Re:Is Scala really more complicated than Java? by yosh on Saturday September 19, 2009 @07:35PM (#832452)
Those makefiles wouldn't have to be as complex if automake only targeted GNU make. A lot of the messiness is there to support conditionals.
Re:Is Scala really more complicated than Java? by silentbicycle on Saturday September 19, 2009 @08:04PM (#832495)
That's because conditionals are implicit in the underlying selection of targets. Trying to force explicit conditionals into the language gets cumbersome and ugly. You don't see explicit 'if's in Prolog, either.
Re:Is Scala really more complicated than Java? by yosh on Saturday September 19, 2009 @08:15PM (#832509)
I disagree. Writing multiplatform makefiles without explicit conditionals is cumbersome and ugly, mainly because the problem space contains so many exceptions. In this case, purism isn't really practical.