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Re:The Unexotic Underclass by chillingeffect on Wednesday September 03, 2014 @12:00PM (#8263627)
> all these people really want and need is money,

In my opinion, all they really want and need is _land_.

The real people squeezing everyone else are the landowners, and the landlords. With enough land, anyone can support themselves: chickens, vegetables, hunting and fishing, etc.

Mortgages in exchange for housing ("death pledges") exploit the poor, indenturing them to overemployment at insufficient wages. The novelty and promise of technology are part of the system that works like a carrot on a string enticing us toward so-called "higher standards," which we only think we need. The rest of the system is security/fear. These are the forces governments and corporations use to keep themselves secure. Anything we're going to do to escape it will be much more like what Jesus of Nazareth, Gandhi, Martin Luther Kind or Malcolm X did than what Paul Graham or Scott Adams did.

Technology and SV makes an easy whipping boy because they're in the crosshairs of the media (all the "billion dollar" buyouts), but we're just another pawn in the game the powerful landowners, governments and corporations are playing. In fact, we're playing along to their rules.

Re:The Unexotic Underclass by Houshalter on Wednesday September 03, 2014 @10:03PM (#8266434)
We are talking about the problems of modern America, not feudal Europe. Land is not particularly scarce, and the poor don't really want to become subsistence farmers or even regular farmers. Just owning a plot of land is not enough to support a middle class family, if it ever was. There are also significant political issues like property taxes, estate taxes, etc, that make owning land more complicated and expensive.

Capital in general is what you mean I think. But even then interest rates are not particularly high, and if you give people money/capital, most people will not invest it to live off the interest.

Our entire society is now based upon the idea that you need to find an employer to pay you to do something. If no one wants/needs to pay you to do things, you are screwed.

Re:The Unexotic Underclass by JoeAltmaier on Wednesday September 03, 2014 @12:02PM (#8263640)
Hey! I'm a landowner! I didn't know I was ruling by security/fear. Wow! I should make myself some jackboots or something.

No kidding aside, in the USA anybody can own land who wants to. That seems too convenient a variable to tag all the social ills on.

Re:The Unexotic Underclass by chillingeffect on Wednesday September 03, 2014 @02:42PM (#8264565)
Well are you going to sell your land at a price poor people can afford or only the wealthy? You're going to sell it for the "best" (measured by maximizing dollar amount) price you can.

So, read my comment carefully, you're not ruling by security/fear, you're squeezing the poor by playing along with market rules, you big squeezing squeezer.

Re:The Unexotic Underclass by Houshalter on Wednesday September 03, 2014 @10:00PM (#8266422)
If you give someone land below market value, they will probably just sell it and pocket the difference. It's functionally equivalent to just giving them cash. If they want land they can go buy it.
Re:The Unexotic Underclass by chillingeffect on Wednesday September 03, 2014 @11:28PM (#8266621)
If you sell land below market value to someone who already has a place to live they will probably just sell it and pocket the difference.

If you sell land below market value to someone who has no other place to live, they will live on it and use the money to buy books, healthcare, tools, nutritious food and cooking utensils.

Thus stands my statement that landowners squeeze the poor.

Re:The Unexotic Underclass by JoeAltmaier on Thursday September 04, 2014 @12:03PM (#8269021)
Anybody with money 'squeezes the poor' by not giving it to them. Land is no different. You don't have to 'live on land' - most people don't.

So if by 'land' we mean 'any place to live' then why not make that a civil right, instead of putting the burden on landowners? E.g. people need tools, books, education too and the folks that 'own' those aren't being criticized as squeezers.

Re:The Unexotic Underclass by _archon_ on Thursday September 04, 2014 @04:27PM (#8270434)
If you sell land below market value to someone who has no other place to live, they will live there only so long as it will take to arrange to move somewhere cheaper when they sell their land for market value and pocket the difference. They will then have money left over to spend on healthcare, tools, etc.

I'm not sure I agree with your statement that landowners squeeze the poor more than anyone else does.

Re:The Unexotic Underclass by nilsimsa on Wednesday September 03, 2014 @12:45PM (#8263905)
If all you need is _land_, there is plenty of cheap land in the US. But you just have to live away from the big population centers. But then if you are going to be self sustaining, you don't need to near a big population center.