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Re:Java Developers by seanmcdirmid on Tuesday July 22, 2014 @06:33AM (#8068217)
> "don't call me, I'll call you" pattern

Just call it the Hollywood Principle [1], and ya, it sucks. Databinding frameworks like React go a long way in fixing this (and my own work [2] also).

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollywood_principle

[2] http://research.microsoft.com/pubs/211297/managedtime.pdf

Re:Java Developers by cousin_it on Tuesday July 22, 2014 @08:00AM (#8068443)
I really like your work, but not sure that it lies on the right side of the framework/library divide. For example, to realize the full benefits of your approach, you define a new programming language with "no escape hatches". That's the most extreme kind of framework thinking!

My favorite post about libraries and frameworks is this one: http://web.archive.org/web/20130810134741/http://an9.org/dev...

> Frameworks hurt sharing. I'd really like to give you this fork Jimmy, but you're gonna need a knife and plate to use it. The framework checks out all your girlfriends for you, the framework won't let anyone dirty get through, the framework will wait up until you get in, the framework will always find out were you've been, the framework keeps you healthy and clean. Frameworks embrace, extend and hold on to greedily.

Re:Java Developers by seanmcdirmid on Tuesday July 22, 2014 @08:17AM (#8068509)
We are not so much defining frameworks as we are new ways of computing. In that sense, it's not really something that will be ready tomorrow (or ever). I do use glitch as a library in C# for UI and compiler programming (hard to program very interactive UI and compilers otherwise), but that is with lots of escape hatches :)
Re:Java Developers by cousin_it on Tuesday July 22, 2014 @08:26AM (#8068536)
Fair enough :-) Thanks for the pointers!
Re:Java Developers by discreteevent on Tuesday July 22, 2014 @08:17AM (#8068510)
The point about defining a new language is that the abstraction doesn't leak, whereas frameworks generally leak left right and centre.
Re:Java Developers by edem on Tuesday July 22, 2014 @10:08AM (#8069033)
According to Joel Spolsky all abstractions leak: http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/LeakyAbstractions.htm...
Re:Java Developers by Dewie on Tuesday July 22, 2014 @03:00PM (#8070924)
Does assembly language leak compared to machine code? That is, does mnemonic names for machine code instructions leak?
Re:Java Developers by fanf2 on Wednesday July 23, 2014 @03:32AM (#8073270)
Yes: for example the x86 MOV instruction is actually a family of instructions. You can see the leakage in the restrictions on which combinations of addressing modes you can use.
Re:Java Developers by auggierose on Tuesday July 22, 2014 @07:10AM (#8068306)
What? React is a framework as well. componentWillUpdate much?