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Re:App parking system shuts down in San Francisco by ugexe on Sunday July 13, 2014 @07:04PM (#8028825)
You do realize that this app meant the city is not charging enough (market rate) for parking right?
Re:App parking system shuts down in San Francisco by untog on Sunday July 13, 2014 @07:16PM (#8028862)
But is it in the public interest to charge market rate? That's the issue here. Should poorer people in SF be unable to park anywhere? Is that a good use of public resources?
Re:App parking system shuts down in San Francisco by jasonisalive on Sunday July 13, 2014 @07:52PM (#8028965)
Attempts to artificially control prices for a scarce asset in the names of protecting equality will always fail. Prices will inevitably rise to their market level, the only difference is whether the owner of the good (the city) will reap the full benefit of the transaction, or whether the fruits will be split between (initially) secondary sellers and (later) law enforcement efforts.

The most important effect is that the incentives that might have favoured innovation to improve the efficiency of the use of the good and offer affordable alternatives are distorted in favour of incentives which favour unscrupulous competition for arbitrage gains.

Re:App parking system shuts down in San Francisco by curmudgeon224 on Sunday July 13, 2014 @08:18PM (#8029036)
Well - ignoring the fact that city maintained street parking is a public resource - I believe you are ignoring the cost of time (of the person searching for parking) in your analysis which, in effect, creates a perfect market equilibrium....or something.
Re:App parking system shuts down in San Francisco by jasonisalive on Sunday July 13, 2014 @08:24PM (#8029049)
A scarce resource is a scarce resource. It doesn't matter what intentions it was made with, or what rhetoric is used to justify a clearly defective pricing strategy.
Re:App parking system shuts down in San Francisco by judk on Sunday July 13, 2014 @10:55PM (#8029359)
time spent looking for parking is waste, aka deadweigt lost. Better to transfer money (zero sum) than waste time (negative sum)
Re:App parking system shuts down in San Francisco by taybin on Sunday July 13, 2014 @11:15PM (#8029394)
[Citation Needed]
Re:App parking system shuts down in San Francisco by gfodor on Sunday July 13, 2014 @07:48PM (#8028951)
If the issue is fairness, there are two things people generally have they can give up: time and money. Right now finding parking is based on random chance. A better system, if we decide time is the thing people pay with, would involve people having to wait a pre-determined amount of time before they can take ownership of a parking spot, which would increase as demand did and vice versa. Additionally this duration could be determined by the amount of time they spend in the spot.

The status quo is obviously broken. The question is if there is an easy and effective way to improve fairness.

Re:App parking system shuts down in San Francisco by judk on Sunday July 13, 2014 @10:57PM (#8029361)
Forcing people to waste time is just wasteful. Everyone should pay, and certain desrving people (however that is decided) can get financial support or nontransferable credits (bit these have practical challenges)
Re:App parking system shuts down in San Francisco by gfodor on Tuesday July 15, 2014 @11:18PM (#8040391)
It wouldn't be a matter of wasting time, it would be a manner of a person having to plan ahead before parking. If you want to park in a busy neighborhood, you may find that you can't actually do so for several hours, if others ahead of you in line have reserved those spaces. This is completely fair since everyone is treated equally, there is no 'wasted time' in this system that wouldn't have been wasted in the current system provided the spots are maximally full at all times. The current system results in some people getting lucky, others driving around in circles trying to find a spot, and others completely giving up. All of that time is being wasted. Beyond that the folks driving around are congesting the roadways, resulting in additional negative effects on the overall efficiency of allocating parking.

The main issue with designing a reservation based system is how efficient it is with regards to spots being continually filled, along with the constraint that it be considered fair by all participants. It seems like a design challenge but the current greedy algorithm probably sets the bar pretty low. It would be interesting to simulate.

Re:App parking system shuts down in San Francisco by _delirium on Sunday July 13, 2014 @07:41PM (#8028925)
Fwiw, SF is actually moving to market-rate pricing for meters and garages, with a pilot in a subset of spaces currently underway: http://sfpark.org/
Re:App parking system shuts down in San Francisco by asdfologist on Sunday July 13, 2014 @07:23PM (#8028881)
Should the city start charging market rate for schools, parks, and libraries?
Re:App parking system shuts down in San Francisco by judk on Sunday July 13, 2014 @11:03PM (#8029373)
The important distinction is congestion. Users should pay auction prices for contested resources (how much someone else would have to pay to get access). Windfall gains should then be used for general welfare spending for the community (maybe building more of the scarce resources). This is how shared infrastructure can finance its development, in a way that incentivize efficient use age patterns (smoothing/flattening the demand across time)

Marginal cost of a non-fully -occupied library is approximately zero.

Re:App parking system shuts down in San Francisco by jasonisalive on Sunday July 13, 2014 @07:45PM (#8028939)
Why not?
Re:App parking system shuts down in San Francisco by walterbell on Sunday July 13, 2014 @07:56PM (#8028982)
Libraries are a form of insurance against the societal costs of illiteracy, which is related to crime.

http://librarianshipwreck.wordpress.com/2014/07/10/if-you-wa...

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Though the library may appear to be free, the truth is quite different; it is not that the library borrower is getting things for free, it is that they have already paid. Libraries are the result of a community pooling resources (often gathered through taxes) for the funding and purchasing of materials that are then made available to all members of that community.

... Just as a community invests in infrastructure like roads, bridges and water management systems – a community invests in a library. Libraries, if you will, represent educational and intellectual infrastructure. A recognition that just as a road makes it easier to reach your destination, so too does access to information enable one to complete a journey of another sort.

... what occurs in a library is the development and maintenance through the economy of a genuine structure for sharing. Numerous people contribute a little and from this are able to get a lot, but the value they extract from their investment is not in the form of a sack of money with a dollar sign on it, but a larger social value. It is a value that would be diminished by turning it simply into a profit-generating scheme.

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Re:App parking system shuts down in San Francisco by jasonisalive on Sunday July 13, 2014 @08:34PM (#8029069)
Well that's very rousing, but only someone working for a chronically underfunded and at-risk institution would feel the need to write such flowery prose. If I was a rich taxpayer whose money was on the line I don't think I would be convinced.
Re:App parking system shuts down in San Francisco by walterbell on Sunday July 13, 2014 @09:06PM (#8029138)
Yeah some wanted to turn NYC's flagship research library into a glorified starbucks, removing book stacks. Pesky enlightenment democracy and city elections had a diferent opinion.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/08/arts/design/public-library...

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In a striking about-face, the New York Public Library has abandoned its much-disputed renovation plan to turn part of its research flagship on Fifth Avenue at 42nd Street into a circulating library and instead will refurbish the nearby Mid-Manhattan Library, several library trustees said

.. This shift is something of a defeat for the library, which had already paid the British architect Norman Foster $9 million in private funds for his firm’s work on the plan for the flagship, a 1911 Beaux-Arts landmark.

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Re:App parking system shuts down in San Francisco by taybin on Sunday July 13, 2014 @11:16PM (#8029399)
The short-sightedness of the current crop of the upper class is a problem.
Re:App parking system shuts down in San Francisco by joe_the_user on Sunday July 13, 2014 @08:37PM (#8029080)
* SF has a large number of private parking garages. Anyone willing to pay market rate can use them. The city is choosing to charge the rate that it finds most useful.

* The existence of the app in no way demonstrates that the city doesn't charge market rate. The people who "sell" their parking spaces in the app don't have the same cost structure as the city since, among other things, they don't actually own these parking spaces and are simply engaging in a scam.

Re:App parking system shuts down in San Francisco by ugexe on Sunday July 13, 2014 @08:50PM (#8029106)
Are these factual statements or conjecture? Someone else stated the city is working in charging market rate in some areas, which doesn't mesh with the statement that the city is currently charging what is most useful for them
Re:App parking system shuts down in San Francisco by joe_the_user on Wednesday July 16, 2014 @02:30AM (#8040825)
Of course the city is charging what they feel is most useful to them, for whatever reasons they choose. The statement is true virtually by definition.

The city may not be charging you think is most to it, but hey, the city probably isn't concerned with what lone hackers somewhere think, why should it be.

Re:App parking system shuts down in San Francisco by evanb on Sunday July 13, 2014 @10:20PM (#8029293)
Re:App parking system shuts down in San Francisco by judk on Sunday July 13, 2014 @10:53PM (#8029354)