> And most bands with no record label have no record sales.

What they need to do is market themselves effectively. I've known one band that signed a record deal... but they were already popular in their particular niche. So their record deal has an expiration date on the length of time that the record label owns the copyright (10 years in this case, IIRC). Had they not already had a following, the label would have screwed them into signing over their copyright indefinitely.

You need to work on your following on a small scale, and then let word of mouth, internet marketing, etc scale up your fan-base. The 'hit it big' idea is largely a fantasy. Most bands that sign a record deal to 'make it big' end up failing and then being locked into a contract with the record label for the next X years.

To say that bands need the record labels is a fallacy. Most of the bands that the record labels sign are failures. Record labels take the 'shotgun' approach to finding the 'next big thing.' They are opportunists that prey on people's hopes and dreams of becoming the next huge band. They sweet-talk them into thinking that it's a slam-dunk as soon as they are signed.

The problem with most musicians -- or at least the 'rock' musicians -- is that a lot of them don't do it for the 'love of the music.' They do it because they want to become a large popular rock band so they can party, binge on drugs/alcohol, and get fans/groupies/etc to have lots of backstage sex with. If someone is following this path, and they get screwed by the record companies, I have little sympathy.

Indeed.

http://www.negativland.com/albini.html

In the end, only the popular bands make money anyway. Even if you sign with a major label, if nobody likes your music, they aren't buying your album, or your concert tickets.

My point was that a band will make more money on tour because the record label takes a huge chunk of the albums sale.

The real money is in producing music. :-P

Sure, but how many bands that aren't on (and have never been on) a record label have over a million album sales? Are there any? The simple fact is that without record labels, most artists would be even more broke than they already are. It is possible that another model for music marketing and distribution could be created, but right now, it doesn't exist. Artists need record labels; record labels need record sales; therefore, artists need record sales.

There are two kinds of rights when it comes to paying royalties for music: performing rights and mechanical rights. Performing rights are most commonly owned by the composer or the publisher and mechanical rights are usually owned by the publisher and the record label. Note that the performer doesn't own any of these rights. Unfortunately, performers (or "bands") are not entitled for compensation based on record sales, unless the deal they signed with their publisher or record label specifically states that. And the deal they can struck with these entities largely depends on their posotion in the bargain; more popular bands can obviously get better conditions more easily. One way to become more popular is going on tour, of course.

I disagree, there is a minimum that you are almost guaranteed on a big label as long as your sound is easily accessible (otherwise known as shit). If you get the vast radio networks the labels bought up playing your music people will start to "like" it, through familiarity, it must be subliminal or something.

The above must be true because my local radio station 2CR (which we reckon is short for 2 crap records) is still being asked to play "I think i'd better leave right now" by Will Young which is the most hideous song EVER created.

The music complex (labels, bands, roadies..) is likely to make more money in a world where you can sell a cd (the old world) then in a world where you cannot. How the loss is distributed within this complex is not obvious.

My point is that the industry is not dumber then the comment which appears on any music industry thread on the internet. Copyright is important to them. They have a chance of keeping it from disappearing, or at least slowing down the process.

"Most bands with no record sales have no ticket sales either. And most bands with no record label have no record sales."

Go netaudio instead. You get publicity be giving away music and then you get gigs due to people knowing you and listening to your music.