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Re:Japan building 1GW, $21bn solar power station in space by jacquesm on Wednesday September 02, 2009 @09:43AM (#800120)
I'm assuming it is geosynchronous, you could only blast down to your own country with it, any place else the angle to the atmosphere would be too oblique to have any chance of reaching the ground.

It's an ideal country sized energy suicide weapon though.

Sort of a satellite born seppuku.

Re:Japan building 1GW, $21bn solar power station in space by ars on Wednesday September 02, 2009 @02:14PM (#800775)
> It's an ideal country sized energy suicide weapon though.

You couldn't do anything to a country. You could damage a small area if you concentrated it.

If the capture area is 4km, then anything on the ground larger than 2km x 2km would not even notice you doing anything (since it gets basically that much sun anyway). And with the losses (I estimate only 25% of energy is captured). You can radiate an area 1km x 1km without anyone noticing (which is about a city block).

To do damage you'd have to a go a lot smaller. It would take a very long time to do anything to something even city sized.

Re:Japan building 1GW, $21bn solar power station in space by Tuna-Fish on Wednesday September 02, 2009 @10:39AM (#800260)
Well, you could also target your immediate neighbors. I bet most of the richest and most industrialized eastern china would be right inside the viable target area.

Also, think anti-ballistic missile defences -- no need for adaptive optics and all that jazz when you can swat the missiles with lasers from their most vulnerable position, right at the top of their trajectory.

Re:Japan building 1GW, $21bn solar power station in space by jacquesm on Wednesday September 02, 2009 @11:20AM (#800357)
One gigawatt is a tremendous amount of energy, but what microwave radiation would do against an incoming ICBM is an open question. It's all about how concentrated the beam will be and how fast you can direct it (ICBMs move pretty fast and even at the top of their trajectory they are hard to pinpoint because they do not exactly carry homing beacons).

Also, in all of the following keep in mind that we're talking about a re-entry vehicle here which has extensive heat shielding anyway just to survive its inevitable contact with the atmosphere.

It is more about energy density if this could be used as a weapon against an ICBM or not, the receiver of the energy would presumably be a fairly large patch of ground with a 'safe zone' around it in case of minor misalignment.

If you'd want your gigawatt to be concentrated in an area of 100x100 m under 'normal 'conditions you will not be able to quickly reconfigure to something on the order of a hotspot as produced by a battle laser (this is not a laser!).

In normal operating conditions and assuming they can beam as tight as 1,000,000,000 Watts per 100x100m patch (which remains to be seen) you'd have about 100KW / square meter, or about 10 W / square centimeter assuming absolutely perfect (so lossless) transmission and 0 reflection.

Microwave absorption of the ICBM would then be the deciding factor if anything happened to it or not, 10W / square centimeter seems a lot but it really isn't, the question is how long the beam could be focused on the incoming ICBM and how steady it could be held.

With lasers this appears to be possible, see this http://boeing.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=43&item=817 but it was an aircraft at subsonic speeds vs a stationary ground target.

Shooting stuff down that moves very fast is not that easy, especially not if your normal mode of operation is for energy transmission instead of destruction.

Re:Japan building 1GW, $21bn solar power station in space by Tuna-Fish on Wednesday September 02, 2009 @12:08PM (#800456)
Who was talking about shooting icbm's with microwaves? If you have a gigawatt power generation platform in space, putting a couple of free-electron lasers up there is hardly more than an afterthought. With a big enough laser, you can stop having to worry about the heat shielding/reflectivity of the target, and just trust that the second you hit something, it's surface is going to ionize (= blow up). And as for hitting the targets up there, at the apex of their trajectory ICBM's are 1) ballistic 2) slow compared to the other parts of their flight. While hitting is still not exactly easy, other than hitting them on the launch pads it's the easiest way to do the (hard) task.
Re:Japan building 1GW, $21bn solar power station in space by ars on Wednesday September 02, 2009 @02:22PM (#800783)
Why would it blow up? Nuclear bombs don't blow up when they get hot.

All that would happen is you would make a hole in it, but since it's on a ballistic it would keep on going. (Ballistic means gravity is controlling it, it's not powered.)

Even if you blew it up, at best you would spread nuclear material all over the target area.

You need to hit these things during the boost phase, where a: you can stop it from going ballistic and make it fall back into the launching country, and b: you have something volatile to blow up (the fuel).

Also, it's easier. When it's at the apex it's moving horizontally very quickly, and it's at it's closest to you. Which is the most difficulty when it comes to aiming (since the angle of the shot is moving the fastest at that point).

When it's moving vertically toward you is much easier to aim, since you barely have to move the laser.

Re:Japan building 1GW, $21bn solar power station in space by Tuna-Fish on Wednesday September 02, 2009 @02:39PM (#800821)
I'm not saying the bomb will go nuclear when heated.

A high-powered laser won't just heat stuff up. If you can pump enough energy to small enough surface area in small enough time, the outer layer of the object being hit will be ionized. The laser will pump even more energy to this cloud of electrons and ions. For all intents and purposes, this cloud can be called an explosion.

Yes, I'm saying that when you hit a piece of garden-variety steel with a strong-enough laser, it will blow up and disintegrate into small pieces.

And even if the missile is moving very fast horizontally at the apex the movement is entirely predictable, even minutes into the future. All you need is two rangings, then you can just point the laser at where the missile is going to pass trough.

Re:Japan building 1GW, $21bn solar power station in space by ars on Wednesday September 02, 2009 @02:55PM (#800850)
My point about the apex is not prediction, but dwell time. You have to move the laser very fast, and very accurately to match the motion of the missile.

And anyway, you can predict the motion as soon as the motor is finished, you don't have to wait for the apex.

It's very difficult to aim the laser that well - even if you know exactly where it's going to be. Even if you were perfect in location and control, random atmospheric effects would mess it up.

The only practical way is via feedback loop, and when the angle is changing so fast it's very very hard to do.

You want a place where the angle doesn't change much, and all you need to do is adjust it based on feedback.

As far as destroying the missile - you need to pump enough energy into it to vaporise the entire thing. Normally an explosion will fracture the object near it. That cloud won't. You are moving very fast in air (even at the apex), and any ions will be blown away, plus they are only moving away from the missile, and not toward it, so they will not damage it. (They are moving away because they came from it, when they vaporized they bounced off the surface and away from the missile.)

You have to vaporise the entire thing layer by layer. And the energy in the cloud will not help you - since it's moving away from the missile it won't heat it, in fact it will insulate it (until it's blown away by the air) because all the energy of the laser will heat the cloud, and do nothing to the missile.

It's too easy to defend against a laser anyway. A small amount of water in the nose, released when it detects a laser will produce a cloud of water that will absorb all the laser's energy.

Re:Japan building 1GW, $21bn solar power station in space by jacquesm on Wednesday September 02, 2009 @03:46PM (#800962)
> random atmospheric effects would mess it up.

Not in a space based laser aiming at an ICBM at it's apex, it would be about 500 to 700 km depending on the trajectory, and doing about 14,000 km / h.

Re:Japan building 1GW, $21bn solar power station in space by jacquesm on Wednesday September 02, 2009 @12:16PM (#800473)
You make this sound a little easier than it is, really, but you are right that if you do want to hit them the top of the trajectory is one of the best times to try to do it.

Unfortunately the people that launch these things are well aware of that, which is why if they are launched they are not launched 'one-by-one' to allow you to recharge your lasers between shots.

Another slight problem with the strategy is that any attacker capable of launching an ICBM at a country would probably also have the capability to hit that platform, and wich a 1GW radiated output it provides you with a really nice fat target.

Re:Japan building 1GW, $21bn solar power station in space by Keyframe on Wednesday September 02, 2009 @12:12PM (#800466)